Producing Berghain techno?

[Brankis]

Richie Hawtin never used compression.

Yeah, he lets guys like Tim Xavier (who mixes everything that comes out on Minus) use compression for him.

[tone-def]

Best trick is to forget everything you know about the history of techno, and even the fact you're even producing techno. All the most exciting stuff sounds like it's a coincidence that it's techno-esque.

techno? what is techno?

[steevio]

in techno its used more for sound design, so i absolutely think compression is essentiell for making techno.

Richie Hawtin never used compression.
If your happy with the sound from your drum machine or synth, why change the sound with a compressor? it's far from essential, i'd say about a quarter of the tracks i've made i've used a compressor to shape a sound. the only essential things in techno are drum machine or samples, synth and sequencer. anything else is a bonus.

+1

compression is a relatively crude effect, take it or leave it.
far more important are envelopes, note lengths and velocities, get them right and you dont need compression.

[coldfuture]

compression is a relatively crude effect, take it or leave it.

Going to have to disagree there. If you are using a crappy compressor, then yes it is a crude effect. If you are using a Neve, API, Dramastic, Alan Smart, Cranesong, SSL clone, Manley or the like, then they are good. Nearly as transparent as envelopes, or as colored as filthy bit crushers if you know what you are doing with them.

They key is in knowing how to use them for 2 different purposes: creative compression, and bonafied dynamics control. This takes experimentation and time... period.

I am still trying each day to master our current holdings from the Portico and Dramastic lines... but my own ignorance of the rest of the line we have tested is not to be applied as a blanket statement on the use of compression.

If you want to compress save up money, get something nice and most importantly: learn the box you own for all its quirks.

edit: add Chandler/EMI to that list as well. I am not trying to sell high end gear here by any means, but I have to admit that some of these units earn the money/reputation for a reason.

[steevio]

compression is a relatively crude effect, take it or leave it.

Going to have to disagree there. If you are using a crappy compressor, then yes it is a crude effect. If you are using a Neve, API, Dramastic, Alan Smart, Cranesong, SSL clone, Manley or the like, then they are good. Nearly as transparent as envelopes, or as colored as filthy bit crushers if you know what you are doing with them.

They key is in knowing how to use them for 2 different purposes: creative compression, and bonafied dynamics control. This takes experimentation and time... period.

I am still trying each day to master our current holdings from the Portico and Dramastic lines... but my own ignorance of the rest of the line we have tested is not to be applied as a blanket statement on the use of compression.

If you want to compress save up money, get something nice and most importantly: learn the box you own for all its quirks.

edit: add Chandler/EMI to that list as well. I am not trying to sell high end gear here by any means, but I have to admit that some of these units earn the money/reputation for a reason.

not many of us have the resources to buy a rack full of high end compressors.
i was commenting on someones assumption that compression is essential for techno, and i dont agree that it is.
ok some amount of compression or limiting is usually required in mastering even if it is just to tighten things up a little, but that is applicable to all recorded music, and i'd say techno probably requires it the least, as you have much more control over the dynamics of the music in the first place.
i spend alot of my time in the studio shaping my sounds precisely with envelopes, getting the dynamics right by careful manipulation of velocities, carefully balancing oscillator levels so that there is little need for EQ, in other words getting it right at the source.
after that compression is a relatively crude effect, which can undo all my careful work. invariably when i go to record cuts, the engineer and i elect not to use his high end dynamics processors, because we dont usually gain anything from it, and we usually end up just using some subtle limiting.
i'm not saying dont use compression as a creative effect, i'm just saying that it isnt essential to techno.
some people seem to think that you have to have a compressor on absolutely everything, i think its a popular misconception. but its just my oppinion.

edit; sorry guys that is over-oppinionated and unnecesary, all i needed to say was - do it your own way, use whatever tools you can find to do what you want to do, go forwards.

[boudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDurwsq7E7w

In the intro, there's this deep and low, raw sound which i've been trying to recreate. I basically broke up it into parts; there's a kick, i hihat and a bass tone going and the sound i'm looking for is like a cluster underneath it. I've tried taking a lowpitched lowpassfiltered saw in the same key as the bass and the kick but i don't feel that it's anywhere near.

Does anyone have any idea on how to recreate this sound, or is it just a part of the kick? Maybe my speakers messing with me?

[thomasjaldemark]

there is two bass spumds there afaihear

[damagedgoods]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDurwsq7E7w

In the intro, there's this deep and low, raw sound which i've been trying to recreate. I basically broke up it into parts; there's a kick, i hihat and a bass tone going and the sound i'm looking for is like a cluster underneath it. I've tried taking a lowpitched lowpassfiltered saw in the same key as the bass and the kick but i don't feel that it's anywhere near.

Does anyone have any idea on how to recreate this sound, or is it just a part of the kick? Maybe my speakers messing with me?

I've tried to recreate this kind of sound a number of times before (I know, I know, whatever). I have no idea if this is anything like how the original is done, but the closest I got was by taking a plain kick (a 909 or something), lowpass filtering it at 300 or so, putting a very long reverb after it at 4-5% wet (or even less) with very severe lowpass filtering on the input, then compressing the sh!t out of it (like, 30dB reduction) with an attack of 60ms or so and a release of at least that.

The long reverb gives you the constant grain-cloud effect, the low pass filtering on the kick makes sure it's rounded, the LPFing on the reverb input makes sure it's just rumble and no cschcshhhhhh, and the compression pumps which gives you the rhythm. The very long attack and very lean wet/dry mix are critical as it lets most of the kick through untouched.

Here's a clip; I did it very quickly but you get the idea. There's some light saturation after the whole kick shebang and some bass in there as well.

http://www.yousendit.com/download/VGljS ... NkdGa1E9PQ