Brian was asking about digital sales, such as Beatport. This sounds a bit off, unless there's something I'm missing.nrjizer wrote:I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and probably get flamed right off the forum, but since we're on the subject I really feel the need to ask:
To all of you label owners putting out limited vinyl-only runs and then lamenting the fact that people download rips online: what about this surprises you, exactly?
for the label owners out there
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diego vega
- mnml newbie
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:07 pm
- Location: Quito, Ecuador. From: Montevideo, Uruguay.
I know what you guys are talking is the reality of the current situation regarding piracy. I have my own little label, we are not that known or anything (no big name artists etc), and sometimes even the day before release you can find our tracks everywhere by doing a simple Google search, in many many many sites, it really is amazing. You can even find youtube videos with our tracks pointing to pirate sites! I can't imagine how it must be for bigger names etc.
So the conclusion is always the same: in the end nobody makes money in this whole industry? NOT EVEN the more known labels/artists? Everybody does it 'for the love'? There's hundreds of thousands of producers, and labels, and releases but yet everybody is just fucking around wasting their time?
This is what I don't get: all artists and labels are poor and don't make any money, but then you have hundreds of online stores and distributors and clubs and promoters and huge events and festivals? And still I didn't even mention all the software and hardware industry around it geared towards producers and djs???
What do you think about that?
Is it only the artists that have constant gigs around the world that make money? How many of them are there?
In the end we get to the same point that everybody's been going on about the digital/mp3 thing these past few years: the music is just there for promotion (not to make money), and live shows is where the money is made. BUT!!!! to me what doesn't fit in that picture still is, even if the top artists don't sell much how is it that there is all these infrastructure around it if nobody is supposedly not making any money? I don't think Beatport for example is there 'for the love of music', IT'S A BUSINESS. The same for all the other examples I mentioned before (clubs, promoters, events, distributors, etc etc etc).
So the conclusion is that all of us the artists are idiots that give away their work, so stores and promoters and distributors make the money while doing 'virtually nothing' (meaning, if the artist didn't exist in the first place, they wouldn't exist)? So all of us little guys are just slaves to the whole industry and they are taking our money?
BTW I have a day job and make music at night for fun and I don't give a sh!t if I never make money from this, I will keep making music and releasing it for my pleasure and to share with the world, but is this really the case of 95% of the industry? This whole industry is built from a hobby of thousands of people?
Somebody help me join the dots...!
sorry for the long rant
I'm usually quiet but I want to see what you guys think, since there's many of you here with a lot of experience too
(the following is not directed at you specifically, I'm just reflecting on your words)pheek wrote: Anyway, I just sort of quitted all that BS anyway. I just got a job and don't really give a fck anymore. I'm managing the label to put out music i believe in. Although if I had more output, I'd be able of greater things.
So the conclusion is always the same: in the end nobody makes money in this whole industry? NOT EVEN the more known labels/artists? Everybody does it 'for the love'? There's hundreds of thousands of producers, and labels, and releases but yet everybody is just fucking around wasting their time?
This is what I don't get: all artists and labels are poor and don't make any money, but then you have hundreds of online stores and distributors and clubs and promoters and huge events and festivals? And still I didn't even mention all the software and hardware industry around it geared towards producers and djs???
What do you think about that?
Is it only the artists that have constant gigs around the world that make money? How many of them are there?
In the end we get to the same point that everybody's been going on about the digital/mp3 thing these past few years: the music is just there for promotion (not to make money), and live shows is where the money is made. BUT!!!! to me what doesn't fit in that picture still is, even if the top artists don't sell much how is it that there is all these infrastructure around it if nobody is supposedly not making any money? I don't think Beatport for example is there 'for the love of music', IT'S A BUSINESS. The same for all the other examples I mentioned before (clubs, promoters, events, distributors, etc etc etc).
So the conclusion is that all of us the artists are idiots that give away their work, so stores and promoters and distributors make the money while doing 'virtually nothing' (meaning, if the artist didn't exist in the first place, they wouldn't exist)? So all of us little guys are just slaves to the whole industry and they are taking our money?
BTW I have a day job and make music at night for fun and I don't give a sh!t if I never make money from this, I will keep making music and releasing it for my pleasure and to share with the world, but is this really the case of 95% of the industry? This whole industry is built from a hobby of thousands of people?
Somebody help me join the dots...!
sorry for the long rant
I'm usually quiet but I want to see what you guys think, since there's many of you here with a lot of experience too-
Brian Ffar
- mnml mmbr
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- Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 11:10 pm
- Contact:
Yes, i was talking about music that is made available digitally to sell at online retailers.
Has anyone used any Piracy Management companies out there? I DO think they're pricy, but if the NPV of that investment is positive, there's absolutely no reason not to use them.
Unfortunately, the only service I'm familiar with offers a 2 and 4 week service package. I supposed after the first month of sales, labels won't be too upset as the bulk of sales occur within the first month of digital availability. On the flip side, consumers are onto the next latest and greatest and aren't too concerned with downloading "old" music.
Could be a win. Thoughts?
Has anyone used any Piracy Management companies out there? I DO think they're pricy, but if the NPV of that investment is positive, there's absolutely no reason not to use them.
Unfortunately, the only service I'm familiar with offers a 2 and 4 week service package. I supposed after the first month of sales, labels won't be too upset as the bulk of sales occur within the first month of digital availability. On the flip side, consumers are onto the next latest and greatest and aren't too concerned with downloading "old" music.
Could be a win. Thoughts?
i think its hard to find out
if you buy that service for one release and it sells 10% better, was it cause the release is so good or cause of the service?
so your only way is to buy this service multiple times like for a every release a year long, if your sales then are up 10% over the whole year you could draw a better conclusion
if you buy that service for one release and it sells 10% better, was it cause the release is so good or cause of the service?
so your only way is to buy this service multiple times like for a every release a year long, if your sales then are up 10% over the whole year you could draw a better conclusion
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gustafsson
- mnml newbie
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:35 pm
Good post Diego Vega ,
The fact is i think throught centuries many artists where exploited
look at the painters, the writers not only the musicians
Many of them created masterpieces but lived in poverty or had just a normal life . Even famous names in pop music who are rich made the label onwers 10 times richer. I Have read somewhere Beatport has 100 people there
well how much that costs per month? How much do they sell? is there an accurate way of knowing all these infos ? Some labels enter the Techno 100
with 120 Downloads , now..... How many people worked in Prime or Neuton
combined ?? I mean 100 people....
some labels can only know what they sell if they receive the exact hour of each purchase , country etc
There is much more to be said about your post , but i have to eat now
The fact is i think throught centuries many artists where exploited
look at the painters, the writers not only the musicians
Many of them created masterpieces but lived in poverty or had just a normal life . Even famous names in pop music who are rich made the label onwers 10 times richer. I Have read somewhere Beatport has 100 people there
well how much that costs per month? How much do they sell? is there an accurate way of knowing all these infos ? Some labels enter the Techno 100
with 120 Downloads , now..... How many people worked in Prime or Neuton
combined ?? I mean 100 people....
some labels can only know what they sell if they receive the exact hour of each purchase , country etc
There is much more to be said about your post , but i have to eat now
one word: drugs.diego vega wrote:I know what you guys are talking is the reality of the current situation regarding piracy. I have my own little label, we are not that known or anything (no big name artists etc), and sometimes even the day before release you can find our tracks everywhere by doing a simple Google search, in many many many sites, it really is amazing. You can even find youtube videos with our tracks pointing to pirate sites! I can't imagine how it must be for bigger names etc.
(the following is not directed at you specifically, I'm just reflecting on your words)pheek wrote: Anyway, I just sort of quitted all that BS anyway. I just got a job and don't really give a fck anymore. I'm managing the label to put out music i believe in. Although if I had more output, I'd be able of greater things.
So the conclusion is always the same: in the end nobody makes money in this whole industry? NOT EVEN the more known labels/artists? Everybody does it 'for the love'? There's hundreds of thousands of producers, and labels, and releases but yet everybody is just fcking around wasting their time?
This is what I don't get: all artists and labels are poor and don't make any money, but then you have hundreds of online stores and distributors and clubs and promoters and huge events and festivals? And still I didn't even mention all the software and hardware industry around it geared towards producers and djs???
What do you think about that?
Is it only the artists that have constant gigs around the world that make money? How many of them are there?
In the end we get to the same point that everybody's been going on about the digital/mp3 thing these past few years: the music is just there for promotion (not to make money), and live shows is where the money is made. BUT!!!! to me what doesn't fit in that picture still is, even if the top artists don't sell much how is it that there is all these infrastructure around it if nobody is supposedly not making any money? I don't think Beatport for example is there 'for the love of music', IT'S A BUSINESS. The same for all the other examples I mentioned before (clubs, promoters, events, distributors, etc etc etc).
So the conclusion is that all of us the artists are idiots that give away their work, so stores and promoters and distributors make the money while doing 'virtually nothing' (meaning, if the artist didn't exist in the first place, they wouldn't exist)? So all of us little guys are just slaves to the whole industry and they are taking our money?
BTW I have a day job and make music at night for fun and I don't give a sh!t if I never make money from this, I will keep making music and releasing it for my pleasure and to share with the world, but is this really the case of 95% of the industry? This whole industry is built from a hobby of thousands of people?
Somebody help me join the dots...!
sorry for the long rant
how else do i have the time to post on this board without a day job? ride that white pony down to the end of the rainbow.
edit: terrible joke
diego vega wrote:I know what you guys are talking is the reality of the current situation regarding piracy. I have my own little label, we are not that known or anything (no big name artists etc), and sometimes even the day before release you can find our tracks everywhere by doing a simple Google search, in many many many sites, it really is amazing. You can even find youtube videos with our tracks pointing to pirate sites! I can't imagine how it must be for bigger names etc.
(the following is not directed at you specifically, I'm just reflecting on your words)pheek wrote: Anyway, I just sort of quitted all that BS anyway. I just got a job and don't really give a fck anymore. I'm managing the label to put out music i believe in. Although if I had more output, I'd be able of greater things.
So the conclusion is always the same: in the end nobody makes money in this whole industry? NOT EVEN the more known labels/artists? Everybody does it 'for the love'? There's hundreds of thousands of producers, and labels, and releases but yet everybody is just fcking around wasting their time?
This is what I don't get: all artists and labels are poor and don't make any money, but then you have hundreds of online stores and distributors and clubs and promoters and huge events and festivals? And still I didn't even mention all the software and hardware industry around it geared towards producers and djs???
What do you think about that?
I think you're damn right and hilarious! I think everyone does it because it's fun and hope to get that one track that everyone will like. Some do it because they want to be part of that mass sea of people where there's a tip of the iceberg that comes out of the water... and that tip is the VIP, the ones who make money. But iceberg is ice, it melts... some rise, then fall, are replaced, then come back. It's cycles and its fun if you don't let your frustration catch up.
But yes, there's definately some people making money on our backs and in between, some people who refuse to contribute to anything (pirate, on top of the sea).
That's my view. Not sure if I make sense.
but thanks for the laugh, was a clever post of yours!
