Demos

[patrick bateman]

music is passion but when you send a demo to a record label it becomes business. by sending a demo your presenting a product you want the label to sell for you.

Well put.

Music if of course both business and passion.

[oblioblioblio]

why can't passion and business go together?

dunno. ask Stock, Aitkin and Waterman. Ask Simon Cowell.

Ask Capitol records ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_v._Thomas )

Ask Alan McGee pulling his hair out waiting for 'Loveless'.

Ask Tony Wilson @ Factory records.

Ask all the guys who lost their vinyl when all the distributors went bust.


Sure, you need to be motivated. And you need to understand communication, the needs of others, the structures of the world. Etc etc. But as soon as you combine business aspirations and music you are asking for trouble.

[oblioblioblio]

mate i wasnt here to argue. I made a point that is helpful.
One you say musicians are to focus on the music. Well that was ok up til the 90's

now you have to be your own producer, your own engineer, you own mix engineer, your own manager,your own pr, your own booking agent and own account.

If that is not a business i dont know what is.

Look i never said you have to treat it like a business. I love making music but the better business head you have the better you will do.

It is a age old story that people will notice a nice cd cover or mp3 cover art over sh!t a one.

Fact is a log of the bigger labels dont even listen to demos, you have to get a level and be regionised by them and they will come to you or at least you may bump paths on the dj circuit.

i'm not here to argue either. i'm just making a point a feel strongly about.

maybe there's some differences with people's use of the word business.

For me business is trying to make a profit. For me music cannot be tied with making a profit. The 2 do not align at any point where you have control. You have to do what you believe in and do your best to make it work. But profit plus music is not a starting point for good music.

Guess we agree to disagree here.

I listen to the music not how big their promo blurb says they are. I hope there are others that do the same.

You are right that lots of the bigger labels will not even listen to demos. A fancy cover isn't gonna change your chances with that. Then look harder for the right label.

[::BLM::]

Thats you though dude. not everyone thinks like this. I dont even believe most record labels care about artist intergirty anymore, if they did then labels wouldnt be chasing the sales and releasing all this fodder thats being released. I think those of us that are truely in it for the love are well and truely in the minority. You get people that say they love music, but i know its not the same love as i have for it. I know so many so called producer and all they want to do is create bombs so they get gigs. music or making music is a massive business and those who know how to play the game end up doing well despite any obvious talent.

[oblioblioblio]

fck that for a game of cricket.

anyways i think i've said what i need to say on the matter.

i'm not saying to not do what you need to do to survive. maybe you think about your schedule to take advantage of circumstance. maybe you try to play gigs to get your name out.

but the point, for me, where the motivations of business or profit affect the artistic process. then you're not making music, and people will be able to hear it.

and for me, right now at least, my aim is to make music. and the aim of sending demos is to find someone who is listening.

[::BLM::]

fck that for a game of cricket.

anyways i think i've said what i need to say on the matter.

i'm not saying to not do what you need to do to survive. maybe you think about your schedule to take advantage of circumstance. maybe you try to play gigs to get your name out.

but the point, for me, where the motivations of business or profit affect the artistic process. then you're not making music, and people will be able to hear it.

and for me, right now at least, my aim is to make music. and the aim of sending demos is to find someone who is listening.

i wasnt talking about myself btw. I think like you, but just a lil less of the hippy sh!t

there are so many people making music though to get gigs. so many...these are party people though, they love to party so much and this is how they got into djing. now if they wanna dj, they need releases out so they have no choice. one of my friends calls it a necessary evil.

I never found the right label for me, which is why I just started releasing my own music. apart from one other release and some net label stuff my music has always been put out by me. its strange... my own releases do really well and have sold out, but still no label wants to sign me. i get told my music just is too deep or not right or whatever really, just always something. I am glad I have full control over my music though, so many people tell me horror stories from dealing with labels. there are somethings certain labels can do for your career though, which is what im now after i suppose.

[databot]

I don't understand this complete aversion to business, as if it's a dirty word. I guess it conjures up images of stuffy old business men that just "don't get it".

The simple facts are that fans are customers and labels have tracks to sell to them. Somebody has to pay the electric bill to keep the operation going. And furthermore labels have to pay employees who then in turn have their own bills to pay so it makes sense that the label needs to turn some sort of profit to keep everything going. So they have to care about sales or they're just going to flop, and if they're doing something cool that'd be sad.

I mean, take a look at Ghostly, they place a huge emphasis on being all about the music and having thoughtful design/art. And they're doing well, because the simple fact is that they know who they are, what they aren't, and how to leverage that. That's business as well. I think they're probably the best example I can come up with that most people know about that illustrates a successful mix of business & passion.

I'm not saying that money should be the end goal, because it isn't. It's a part of reality you have to deal with so you can chase your goals.

This song pretty much illustrates my opinions.

[tone-def]

what if i had a passion for cutting hair? would you suggest i don't become a hairdresser because passion and business don't go together?

why is music any different?

i want to make a living from music, so does that make me a sellout with no passion for music?