kick and snares an unhappy couple?

[steevio]

i think its always worth remembering that every tune is different, and that techniques that work on one tune might not work on another.
the tune i'm working on at the minute has an early snare pushed ahead of the kick and it funks along nicely with the rest of the elements of the tune, but it doesnt always work. in some tunes the kick needs to push on a little for the groove to work.
getting a good groove is about making every single element of the track work together, some things need to be pushed ahead and other things need to be more lazy and laid back, so their isnt one correct way to do these things.
things like compression are effects, you either like them or not, or they either fit with the tune or not, they arent a panacea. something as simple as cutting the bass on a snare works because when you layer a snare on top of a kick you're going to get a big spike in your waveform which you are probably going to have to treat with compression later on the mix, which then affects everything. so the more you do to fit the sounds together early on, the less you need to do to fix the problem later.
compressing a snare changes the sound of it, which might be what you want, but sometimes i want the snare to breath, so i wouldnt use compression in that situation.
it really is just down to the tune IMO, i dont have strict rules when i'm composing.

[eryx666]

exactly steevio, it depends on a track, but that's just my way, that's my template i always begin with. finally every track is different

[Murgit]

If you've spent some worthy programming time getting the groove/swing working.
Doesn't adding transient shapers/compressors ruin the whole effect?

[MINIMALTECHNOHOUSE]

Compress the snare i say, make the attack dull as you only want to hear the release (IMO!)

The position of the snare hats and bass relative to the kick drum is what gives your track groove (IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)....

If your basslines 'running away' move the notes back a a couple of ticks.... The same principle can be applied to any element of a track...

Sometimes its easier to delay your kick channel ( + delay or - delay) by a few milleseconds.....

Its surprising the effect such subtle changes make on the whole feel of a track....

Has anyone got any groove templates they'd like to share..... Ill rip some this weekend from my vinyl collection and upload them hopefully.....

Also, to answer my humanizing in nuendo thread posted previously, the closest thing you can do is put the 'random note placement' up a tick or two...

Again, subtle but effective....

[eryx666]

@Murgit : i'm not COMPRESSING them , only subtle really hard to hear compression, especially on snares which are very susceptible to processing

[Murgit]

That was not aimed directly at you.

I'm trying to understand the use of compression at the end of the process, rather than at the begining, i.e. get it sounding nice(timbre), then get it sounding right (form).

[steevio]

That was not aimed directly at you.

I'm trying to understand the use of compression at the end of the process, rather than at the begining, i.e. get it sounding nice(timbre), then get it sounding right (form).

i've posted about this a few times before, i've tried almost every conceivable combination of compression on different elements of tracks, and overall compression on the mix, and gradually over the years i've used less and less compression on elements, and spend most of my time getting the groove to work, the track to breath and the dynamics to grab your attention when required, and by compressing the whole track at the end of all that completely negates all that work, by changing everything, so i dont do it. theoretically if you balance everything, watch your velocities, and EQ's you really shouldnt need to compress an entire mix.
i always allow the cutting engineer to apply a slight limiting or very very slight compression to tighten things up, and give the track slightly more volume, but thats it. its got to be really subtle.
compressing the snare will make it fatter and take the edge off it a bit, and for some tracks that sounds exactly right, for others not.

[MINIMALTECHNOHOUSE]

Steevio drops another BOMB!

How about this for an argument about insert effect chains....

I say put EQ AFTER compression, as the compression changes the timbre of the sound (sometimes quite dramticly), which can then be adjusted with the eq until suitable .. and i think it sounds better...

My friend on the other hand, stands by 'EQ before compression', which he justifes as the compressor has less work to do (on a smaller band width)

I cant see why he does this, as the eq effect is distorted by the compressor....?

comments?