ableton compressor (sidechain)

[damagedgoods]

ok, nothing scientific proven, but maybe a first finding.

abletons compressor seems to have an exponential release curve and cubase compressor an logarithmic.


logarithmic:
http://img101.imageshack.us/f/cubasesidechain.png/

exponential:
http://img34.imageshack.us/i/peakff2a00 ... ioinf.png/

Actually, thinking about it some more, the scale here is -1...1 linear, so I guess that means the Ableton comp has a linear release and the Cubase comp has an exponential release?

Exponential release on a linear plot would show the amplitude recovering towards the steady state position asymptotically.

[jobbanaught]

the attack/release curves are defined by the PEAK/RMS/OPTO modes.

I wish they were more precise about this in the manual, how exactly the curves are defined and so on.

[regler]

So I guess FF1 has an exponential attack and FF2 linear (at a guess).

no. the attack/release curves are defined by the PEAK/RMS/OPTO modes.

FF1 just acts way faster than FF2. for example if you set the lookahead of FF2 to 10ms, the results are very similar to FF1 with a 1ms lookahead. IMHO they are exactly the same, just FF1 has more lookahead, which enables it to respond quicker to sharp transients, enabling for a deeper threshold...

I tested it. they have a bit different character, ff2 seems to have a bit faster release and as you said a different attack behaviour (ff2 cut the sound faster down, ff1 have a small fade). the lookahead don't change to much in reference to this behaviour.

some interesting notes, the ff2 have a louder "click" with super fast attacks and lookahead on!



jobbanaught suggested the sonalksis 315 compressor so I installed the demo and tested it. it seems to have a similar behaviour to the cubase compressor (logarithmic release - ln(x)).

http://img64.imageshack.us/f/sonalksis.png/

[s.k.]

yes i may be wrong about the FF thing, was just talking from my experience. never was a big deal for me anyway...

[regler]

ok, I played around a bit again and at the moment I really think it's the release shape from the compressor.

just my personal opinion:
cubase and the sonalksis compressor sounds most of the time right (talking about the groove) for me, while the ableton compressor is often a bit to late, not on the groove. when you look at how the sound fade in again after it was ducked away that make sense too.

I don't think that the ableton compressor is bad (I really love the way it's integrated and the handling from it!), but it seems that the characteristics for sidechaining is not what I want.

now the question is what to do.

I thought about just using the envelopes for sidechaining, as you really can tweak the release curve. The best solution would be an ff3 mode in abletons compressor that acts similar to the sonalkis or cubase compressor.

[KrisM]

I used to love Ableton's compressor, but now I'm a much bigger fan of Studio One's comp, especially for side-chaining. I just get much better results from it, and quicker.

Of course, either way I'm stuck as far as them both being first-party plugs.

[miro pajic]

the knee settings in live's compressor are very important aswell!

[regler]

this is still a topic I love to know more about and I'm still not satisfied with my sidechaining with the ableton compressor, the release just don't work for me.

the sonalksis seems to work ok (can't test it anymore since my demo is over), so does cubase compressor, but I just can't afford the sonalksis and since I work 90% in ableton exporting the audio just to sidechain in cubase is a pita.

any new suggestions for other another sidechain compressors which have the "right" timing? I think this perfect sucking back is just not possible with all compressors, it's very very sensitive to the right release curve (look at the gfx which are posted here), something which is not tweakable like the plain release or threshold.

any alternative tools?

does specific compressor designs (VCA, opto) have a specific release envelope or is this more the individual implementation than the design type self.

release envelope:
logarithmic:
http://img101.imageshack.us/f/cubasesidechain.png/

exponential:
http://img34.imageshack.us/i/peakff2a00 ... ioinf.png/

is there a famous compressor which was used for sidechaining back in the days?

any infos on this topic in general?