Logic or Reason ?

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

For the moment I got Reason, I might get Logic soon. But I'm sure I will try different things in the process.

And the journey begins...

There are a few other good options to consider besides logic. Digital Performer is very good. Both cost a lot though.

For now you should check out Reaper. I have been using reaper for a little while now and I like it so far. I have Digital Performer on a mac here but I have Reason on windows so I started using Reaper a while back. It is the only DAW that offers Rewire for under $400-$500. Rewire lets you wire your audio output from reason into another daw.

http://www.reaper.fm

The best part is that you can download the Reaper demo for free and there are no limits on its use.

Download the full, uncrippled, unexpiring evaluation version of REAPER, and give it a test drive. If it suits you, you'll need a license.

If you like it you can buy a license for a really low price. $60 for an individual who is making less then $20000 a year from using the program. I would imagine that would be most people on here.

You can't beat a deal like that. Plus the demo does not expire so if you were a heartless and unscrupulous character then I suppose you could just keep using it for free. But if you like it you really should buy a $60 license. It will help support the programmers to keep improving the program.

The advantage of this set up is that you will get to use all of Reason's goodies plus you will still have access to all the nice VST effects and VSTi plug-ins out there. Oh, and of course you have all that recording ability. Something Reason lacks.

Lots of people like to knock on Reason's sound quality but I think it sounds great. The problem is the effects are not quite as good as they could be, reverb especially. The advanced reverb unit is a huge improvement over the original, and even better then most VSTs but it has its own character. This character does not change and after awhile feels limiting. Rewiring out and using VST effects really opens up Reason's possibilities. The only thing Reaper lacks is a built in audio editor but you can link it to the editor of your choice. eg. Audacity, Soundbooth, etc.

I will never understand why Propellerheads won't support VST. Its strange.

Anyways, if you decide to give Reaper a whirl PM me with your email and I can send you a template file I made that has 16 Rewire channels already set up to receive from Reason. To be honest with you... setting up Rewire in Reaper the first time was a extremely frustrating experience.

I have it set up so that my main keyboard inputs into Reaper which transmits the midi signal to Reason or VST if that is what is in the slot.

My padKontrol and my midi controller full o' knobs go directly into Reason though, bypassing Reaper. The work flow offers interesting possibilities because the Rewire audio comes back on a separate channel then the one the midi was sent on. At first I thought this was stupid but its turns out to be pretty cool. My template is on a windows machine though so I don't know if you could use it. I assume you are on a mac or you wouldn't be interested in logic.

I wish all my favorite programs were availability for linux. I would say fck you and goodbye to both mac and windows.

[tone-def]

I will never understand why Propellerheads won't support VST. Its strange.

here are some reasons why they won't support VST.

1) Stability

2) Rewire

3) VSTs are not designed in the same way as Reason devices. Reason is a self contained modular system where all the devices work together in ways VSTs can't. you can't flip a VST round and do all the CV routing like you can in Reason.

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

Ya I have read the reasons before on the website. I just still think its strange though. Lack of VST support is one of peoples biggest turn offs besides the lack of recording. It bugs me too that you can't import a audio file and place it in the timeline.

Stabilty? Well, if a VST crashes I just delete it. Thats my fix. I would rather have the option and take my chances.

I doubt it would be that hard for them to create some kind of wrapper to hold a vst, perhaps like an insert slot on the effects part of the mixer. I wonder if they ever tried integrating VST and they couldn't get it to work right with their system or did they just decide from the get-go that they didn't want to support it. If VSTs were so unstable you would think that few DAWs would offer support as a feature. Those guys are wizards, they could do it if they wanted to.

Doesn't matter though, as you said, there is Rewire. Just seems to me that if they expanded the program to add even just a few features it could provide the same functionality as a full DAW.

[::BLM::]

Reason really is a great little program to make dance music on. All my releases have always been made on Reason, up untill the the last two. For those of you that know my deep guise all of that is done on Reason. The only reason I changed was because I got bored of using it, so moved over to Ableton. Once you get the hang of things on Reason, it's really quick to make music on. The Redrum makes things a doddle, and now you have that new synth Thor which is fantastic.

[mlexicon]

reason rewired to Logic me likes

[Este]

People are so ADD these days, they will never take the time to learn something. Why waste money and time buying third party VST's (that you will never learn), when you can explore the depth of what Reason has to offer. I personally think that you will learn so much using Reason since it not only emulates hardware devices, but also gives you complete freedom to route audio and CV. Plus through in a Combinator and call it a day! As mentioned by other users, you can't go wrong throwing Record in as well. Stick with the stability and watch out for Reason 5!

I also wouldn't worry about sound or "sound engines". I figure if your serious about your music, you will eventually want to have mastered by a professional, which will give you more benefits than you trying to master yourself. People that think they can do it themselves, have so much more to learn...

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

People are so ADD these days, they will never take the time to learn something. Why waste money and time buying third party VST's (that you will never learn), when you can explore the depth of what Reason has to offer.

I think likening myself to a person afflicted with ADD is an unfair characterization. I have been using Reason since version 2 and I enjoy it very much. The fact of the matter is that Reason's effects are good but not enough. Each effect has its usefulness but at the end of the day each effect is going to produce a sound that is determined by the algorithm written for the effect.

Take reverb for instance. There is a certain kind of reverb that Reason is unable to reproduce. Its not because the rv7000 Advanced Reverb Unit is bad, its just that it has its own character. Sometimes I hear the most fantastic reverb in tracks and I know just by ear that there is no way you can get that sound from Reason. The rv7000 just doesn't produce that kind of sound.

I don't claim to fully understand the ins and outs of the programming of reverb effects. I don't know everything about convolution, deconvolution, impulses and all the other methods that can be used to program reverberations. I have not programmed a reverb VST before although someday I would like to learn to do it. I can however hear the difference in reverb effects though.

I would imagine that even a slight deviation between to algorithms for reverb would produce a sounds with different qualities. Reverb VSTs that let you load up different impulses are a good example of things Reason's reverb can't do. Last week I visited a friend of the family who runs his own studio. He doesn't do much if anything involving techno but he is a master of sound recording and music production, good musician too. We sat around listening to different reverbs for quite a long time. This guy has an amazing library of VST, VSTi and AU plug-ins. A treasure trove I could only dream of because I would never spend the money on these things like he does. Its his profession though so he has to.

There were some reverbs that were so nice it made me jealous. I am sure it helps that he has top of the line monitors and gear but regardless I could still tell that the plug-ins were fantastic. Many of them gave you the ability to load up all kinds of impulses which was really cool too. That way even the single algorithm was capable of creating all kinds of different spaces.

Reason is a veritable swiss army knife of audio tools but its not the be all and end all. Sometimes you just want a different sound. VSTs are an easy way to freshen things up. As for pricing... VSTs are like most digital things these days. There is plenty of free stuff out there... and plenty of expensive stuff out there. Sometimes you are better going with the free, sometimes you are going to get a lot more if you fork out the cash. Its up to you. I personally don't buy many VSTs yet I have hundreds of them without pirating so... you see? Sometimes you just want a different sound.

[Este]

People are so ADD these days, they will never take the time to learn something. Why waste money and time buying third party VST's (that you will never learn), when you can explore the depth of what Reason has to offer.

I think likening myself to a person afflicted with ADD is an unfair characterization. I have been using Reason since version 2 and I enjoy it very much. The fact of the matter is that Reason's effects are good but not enough. Each effect has its usefulness but at the end of the day each effect is going to produce a sound that is determined by the algorithm written for the effect.

Take reverb for instance. There is a certain kind of reverb that Reason is unable to reproduce. Its not because the rv7000 Advanced Reverb Unit is bad, its just that it has its own character. Sometimes I hear the most fantastic reverb in tracks and I know just by ear that there is no way you can get that sound from Reason. The rv7000 just doesn't produce that kind of sound.

I don't claim to fully understand the ins and outs of the programming of reverb effects. I don't know everything about convolution, deconvolution, impulses and all the other methods that can be used to program reverberations. I have not programmed a reverb VST before although someday I would like to learn to do it. I can however hear the difference in reverb effects though.

I would imagine that even a slight deviation between to algorithms for reverb would produce a sounds with different qualities. Reverb VSTs that let you load up different impulses are a good example of things Reason's reverb can't do. Last week I visited a friend of the family who runs his own studio. He doesn't do much if anything involving techno but he is a master of sound recording and music production, good musician too. We sat around listening to different reverbs for quite a long time. This guy has an amazing library of VST, VSTi and AU plug-ins. A treasure trove I could only dream of because I would never spend the money on these things like he does. Its his profession though so he has to.

There were some reverbs that were so nice it made me jealous. I am sure it helps that he has top of the line monitors and gear but regardless I could still tell that the plug-ins were fantastic. Many of them gave you the ability to load up all kinds of impulses which was really cool too. That way even the single algorithm was capable of creating all kinds of different spaces.

Reason is a veritable swiss army knife of audio tools but its not the be all and end all. Sometimes you just want a different sound. VSTs are an easy way to freshen things up. As for pricing... VSTs are like most digital things these days. There is plenty of free stuff out there... and plenty of expensive stuff out there. Sometimes you are better going with the free, sometimes you are going to get a lot more if you fork out the cash. Its up to you. I personally don't buy many VSTs yet I have hundreds of them without pirating so... you see? Sometimes you just want a different sound.

You make a very good point. Thanks for the enlightenment. I didn't really take what you said into consideration, but it makes a lot of sense.

Could you argue that although there are limited effect units within Reason (particularly the RV7000), you could come up with something completely new through routing various / multiple effects through a combinator?