Going to start building a hardware studio.

[steevio]

i've got some time and spend it on making a little map. this is how i read the posts here.



click to enlarge

you got it !
and to answer a couple of other questions, with midi you can send messages on 16 different channels down each cable, and those messages can be increadibly complex. ( even though midi is quite a simple system )
so say with my virus, if i wanted to use all 16 channels for different sounds, i can tell each sound what to do, what note or notes, how long the note should be, how loud, etc,etc. i can even automate all the controls on each channel of the virus, by sending controller messages to all the knobs etc. i can even send program change messages to switch sounds during the tune, theres virtually nothing you cant tell your synth to do !!
now if say i wanted to only use 12 sounds on the virus, and 4 sounds on my Nord, i could still do it using only one midi out port on my PC card and one cable to the virus, then another cable to the nord from the midi thru port on the virus. i would set the virus to midi channels 1-12, and the Nord to channels 13-16. but if i wanted to use more than 16 channels, i would have to have two midi out ports on my PC card for 32 channels, 3 for 48 etc etc.
hardware sequencers - go doepfer !!, ( ive never tried to use a machine drum as a sequencer so i better leave that to someone else ) it's an awesome way to make music quickly and intuitively, but no where near as much control as a software sequencer. you would have to make the synths work much harder ( using LFO's / envelopes etc to do alot of the automation for you ) however a complex synth like the virus can handle that easily. its a more mathematical way of working, but considering music is mathematical anyway you can come up with results quickly.
using a software sequencer like cubase gives you almost total control over what comes out the other end.
if you used a hardware sequencer, you could ditch the computer altogether, by recording directly on two tracks to say a DAT ( digital Audio Tape ) machine, or some other recording device ( CD / DVD / 2track tape etc. )
i usually use a DAT machine, it's old technology, but you can keep a hard copy of your recording and it also acts as a good quality digital interface for your computer ( but unfortunately only 16bit ). so i record live to DAT, then if i feel i need to rearrange, or edit the tune later, i have the option of putting it straight back into cubase digitally.
with this whole set-up, i can have as much or as little automation as i want, i can work the controls on the synths manually in a live way, and work the faders and mutes on my mixing desk etc. etc. in reality, i do a mixture of everything, but i do alot of the programming in the synths themselves.
i never use audio samples or files, sure you can manipulate them with filters / envelopes etc, but to me that always degrades the sound quality.
it's better by far to get your head into the synth manuals, and use the power of what you have available to you. dont be lazy !!!!!

[credit_agro]

i've got some time and spend it on making a little map. this is how i read the posts here.



click to enlarge

you got it !
and to answer a couple of other questions, with midi you can send messages on 16 different channels down each cable, and those messages can be increadibly complex. ( even though midi is quite a simple system )
so say with my virus, if i wanted to use all 16 channels for different sounds, i can tell each sound what to do, what note or notes, how long the note should be, how loud, etc,etc. i can even automate all the controls on each channel of the virus, by sending controller messages to all the knobs etc. i can even send program change messages to switch sounds during the tune, theres virtually nothing you cant tell your synth to do !!
now if say i wanted to only use 12 sounds on the virus, and 4 sounds on my Nord, i could still do it using only one midi out port on my PC card and one cable to the virus, then another cable to the nord from the midi thru port on the virus. i would set the virus to midi channels 1-12, and the Nord to channels 13-16. but if i wanted to use more than 16 channels, i would have to have two midi out ports on my PC card for 32 channels, 3 for 48 etc etc.
hardware sequencers - go doepfer !!, ( ive never tried to use a machine drum as a sequencer so i better leave that to someone else ) it's an awesome way to make music quickly and intuitively, but no where near as much control as a software sequencer. you would have to make the synths work much harder ( using LFO's / envelopes etc to do alot of the automation for you ) however a complex synth like the virus can handle that easily. its a more mathematical way of working, but considering music is mathematical anyway you can come up with results quickly.
using a software sequencer like cubase gives you almost total control over what comes out the other end.
if you used a hardware sequencer, you could ditch the computer altogether, by recording directly on two tracks to say a DAT ( digital Audio Tape ) machine, or some other recording device ( CD / DVD / 2track tape etc. )
i usually use a DAT machine, it's old technology, but you can keep a hard copy of your recording and it also acts as a good quality digital interface for your computer ( but unfortunately only 16bit ). so i record live to DAT, then if i feel i need to rearrange, or edit the tune later, i have the option of putting it straight back into cubase digitally.
with this whole set-up, i can have as much or as little automation as i want, i can work the controls on the synths manually in a live way, and work the faders and mutes on my mixing desk etc. etc. in reality, i do a mixture of everything, but i do alot of the programming in the synths themselves.
i never use audio samples or files, sure you can manipulate them with filters / envelopes etc, but to me that always degrades the sound quality.
it's better by far to get your head into the synth manuals, and use the power of what you have available to you. dont be lazy !!!!!

Yes I found that I preferred to work in midi or at least make all my sounds with midi (with a synth). I don't really like the idea of samples but never say never.

So you have a digital desk. Is this the most expensive part of your set-up?? How much should I budget for a used one?

northernlight: In your picture (thanks for the trouble btw) you have a midi interface. In reality is this a soundcard or a patch panel type device?

I would be interested in seeing a picture without computer ie: Recording device (DAT maybe), sequencer setup.

Can somebody clarify what exactly a sequencer does just to make sure I have the right idea here.

[northernlight]

northernlight: In your picture (thanks for the trouble btw) you have a midi interface. In reality is this a soundcard or a patch panel type device?

usually you will find that the soundcard and midi interface are one unit. i just splitted it in the picture to make the signal path as clear as possbile.
check out stuff from MOTU, RME and so on

I would be interested in seeing a picture without computer ie: Recording device (DAT maybe), sequencer setup.

in this case you have to modify my picture like this:

- lose the computer
- add a hardware step sequencer that sends midi to the midi interface or directly to the synth/drummachine(not 100% sure about this)
- lose the audio interface and replace by your desired recording device.

[steevio]

Yes I found that I preferred to work in midi or at least make all my sounds with midi (with a synth). I don't really like the idea of samples but never say never.

i started off using an akai sampler when i first started making techno, and hated it, but software samplers are so much better these days, however, i simply prefer to make my own sounds, its so much more fun. but there are limitations to synthesis, maybe not in theory, but in practice yes. i'd say it'll be a long long time before the human voice can be synthesized from waveforms successfully. the human voice is one of the most complex instruments on the planet.

So you have a digital desk. Is this the most expensive part of your set-up?? How much should I budget for a used one?

no i use an analogue desk. i dont like digital desks. a digital desk will remove the need for a good soundcard to get your sounds back into the computer, and give you automation, but my analogue desk (soundcraft ghost) is the heart of my studio, and i'd never exchange it for a digital desk.
a good analogue desk will warm up your virtual analogue synths, so they dont sound so digital anymore. ( although i love the control and functionality of my virtual analogues, they just dont sound right ). if you compare them to the sound of a Moog analogue, which as far as i'm concerned is the ultimate sound, they are very poor. but bung them through a moogerfooger filter, and you can hardly tell the difference. but now youre talking money. a good analogue desk is the next best thing.
theres loads of different makes / models at various prices, but Allen &Heath and soundcraft are my favourites, ( english desks are famed for their warmth ) i've also had a couple of Mackies, they are crisper, but not as warm.

Can somebody clarify what exactly a sequencer does just to make sure I have the right idea here.

a sequencer is like the brain controlling all your gear. it sends messages to your kit telling it what sounds to make and when, and makes sure everything is synched up. a hardware sequencer in a pure analogue set-up uses electronic impulses called control voltages, but unless you can afford lots of analogue gear, the simplest and cheapest way to go hardware, is to use a software sequencer sending out midi messages, virtual analogue synths / drum machines, or more recent analogue gear which has midi, or older analogue gear which has been retro-fitted with midi.
in a software sequencer, you edit the midi messages you are sending to your synths, not audio like you would in the session view of ableton.
you are editing control information, not sounds.
of course you can do this in ableton also by creating midi clips. but if you imagine that cubase has a much better interface, with way advanced midi manipulation tools, different types of editing modes, etc. basically cubase has been around forever, and started off as a midi sequencer, whereas ableton seemed to start off as an audio sequencer with midi as an afterthought. its getting better though slowly !!

[steevio]

So you have a digital desk. Is this the most expensive part of your set-up?? How much should I budget for a used one?

sorry mate i didnt really answer your question here properly.
no i use an analogue desk, and yes in my case it was the most expensive part of my set-up, but for how much to budget for one i cant say, theres a massive variation in desk prices. my soundcraft ghost cost alot, i think it was around £3000, but the desk i had previous to that was a behringer which had almost the same specification but only cost £600. the reason i upgraded was because i found the behringer's EQ's very lifeless, infact i was hardly using the EQ's because of this, i was using the desk almost as a complex and versatile patchbay ! but it did a good job at that for very little money. however, i decided that i needed a quality desk at the heart of my studio.
ive had lots of different desks over the years, but as my kit list started to grow, i had to keep getting bigger desks. i had a nice mackie 16ch desk, but once you've got a couple of synths, a couple of effects, a 16ch desk is useless. so i wouldnt advise anybody to buy anything less than a 24ch desk, and if you can only afford a behringer, then its still better than the digital EQ in your software.

[thom]

I have to tell you about this!!


My latest hardware aquisition for a few pennies down the street: it looks like your regular granny organ (not that one, you sick freak)...




It's an Eminent Solina b303... as the name suggests, it has a built-in Solina, just like the Arp. A spring reverb also... and a line ouput jack... and an input...and a cheesy drum machine that delivers pretty happening analog drum sounds.

I started routing this through external filters, envelope generators and effects...

The pads it delivers... :drool:


In short, my best buy ever.
And it looks fucking awesome.

I swear, for what these string ensemble machines go for on ebay, one cannot go wrong.

I know... no cv/gate or midi... you can still record one chord at a time if you're not much of a keyboardist.

See the empty space at the left of the lower keyboard? That's for your ashtray. Those were the days!!!

[credit_agro]

thom: That reminds me of a synth a guy was using in a CAN dvd I have. Perhaps it is the same model. Ill have to check sometime.


steevio: Will get back with reply to your post.

[credit_agro]

After just reading over this again, I don't think I have anything else to add.

I just need to start saving money and researching equipment now at this stage. Number 1 on the agenda is the Virus C anyways. Oh wait, I actually do have another question.

The virus C doesn't come with any keys. I would prefer to get a physical keyboard to use, what should I get for this?