my songs sound like crap on ipod headphones - why?
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Alex Bizzaro
- mnml mmbr
- Posts: 128
- Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:26 am
whaddup all. i'm new here - i hope i can be helpful
it's been my experience that most well mixed music is gonna sound good on both huge systems and ear buds.
if your kicks are translating thinly you may be hearing bass frequencies in your studio room that are not really there and compensating by cutting bass, turning it down, or balancing the mix incorrectly.
look at your listening environment. how are the acoustics? are all the surfaces around your sitting position flat and reflective? is your gear positioned in a corner or are you along a wall?
do you have your monitors on stands or are they causing a wall or desk to vibrate? do you have decent studio monitors and amplification?
are you hearing what's coming from the speakers or what's bouncing all over the walls, corners, ceiling and furniture? you've got to hear it right to make the best decisions in processing.
do some homework on speaker postioning, basstraps, and first reflection points. usually a little rearranging of the furniture and spending $200 or less on diy sound conditioning can take your sound from amatuer to pro.
once you're able to hear whats really happening you may want to "mult" "layer" or "parallel compress" your kick depending on whats needed.
it's been my experience that most well mixed music is gonna sound good on both huge systems and ear buds.
if your kicks are translating thinly you may be hearing bass frequencies in your studio room that are not really there and compensating by cutting bass, turning it down, or balancing the mix incorrectly.
look at your listening environment. how are the acoustics? are all the surfaces around your sitting position flat and reflective? is your gear positioned in a corner or are you along a wall?
do you have your monitors on stands or are they causing a wall or desk to vibrate? do you have decent studio monitors and amplification?
are you hearing what's coming from the speakers or what's bouncing all over the walls, corners, ceiling and furniture? you've got to hear it right to make the best decisions in processing.
do some homework on speaker postioning, basstraps, and first reflection points. usually a little rearranging of the furniture and spending $200 or less on diy sound conditioning can take your sound from amatuer to pro.
once you're able to hear whats really happening you may want to "mult" "layer" or "parallel compress" your kick depending on whats needed.
sorry zongo but you've totally got this one wrong. Your advice is not to be applied to anybody making music to be played on a variety of systems. Loudspeakers only or not. Well balanced, mixed and mastered music is king.
I'm sorry but the only thing people won't be missing is the poorly mixed music based on your advice.
jro319 and a couple others have some good tips in there. But really, there could be so many problems with your stuff. bad samples, bad synths, bad mix, phase, bad mastering, list goes on...
My only advice is to reference your track to other songs on all these systems. You should be able to put your track against another one of similar mixing style and know what changes to make.
If you can't do this yet.. continue learning your tools in and out through usage, tutorials, manuals and reading. Use your ears, mind and talents. Just continue learning, consulting with others and you'll arrive at the right conclusion.
I'm sorry but the only thing people won't be missing is the poorly mixed music based on your advice.
jro319 and a couple others have some good tips in there. But really, there could be so many problems with your stuff. bad samples, bad synths, bad mix, phase, bad mastering, list goes on...
My only advice is to reference your track to other songs on all these systems. You should be able to put your track against another one of similar mixing style and know what changes to make.
If you can't do this yet.. continue learning your tools in and out through usage, tutorials, manuals and reading. Use your ears, mind and talents. Just continue learning, consulting with others and you'll arrive at the right conclusion.
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http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest
http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest
Hydrogen, I don't think I said somewhere that one should badly mix his audio material only to be cool and hyped. I just said "forget about those stupid default iPod headphones, they suck, and don't waste your time using those as a reference !" 
Do you really feel that electronic music specially designed for iPod and iPhone market is well balanced, mixed and mastered music ? I find this kind of production is usually not surprising, stereotyped, loud (obviously), and quite boring to the ears generally.
I guess it's only a matter of taste then. I was only speaking from my own point of view and the music I like - obviously not electro-house / progressive / tech-house (which is just like yelling very very loud to me). My ears are used to crappy Jamaican dub recordings from the 70's so I might be totally biased
Do you really feel that electronic music specially designed for iPod and iPhone market is well balanced, mixed and mastered music ? I find this kind of production is usually not surprising, stereotyped, loud (obviously), and quite boring to the ears generally.
I guess it's only a matter of taste then. I was only speaking from my own point of view and the music I like - obviously not electro-house / progressive / tech-house (which is just like yelling very very loud to me). My ears are used to crappy Jamaican dub recordings from the 70's so I might be totally biased
zong, good counterpoint... but it is not to say that classic dub music isn't well mixed either.
a well mix and balanced song is going to play on a variety systems with the exception of some reproduction variation obviously...example ipod headphones aren't going to have amazing bass reproduction but the idea is that the music comes across in some way that works in those situations and doesn't sound flat or overly compensated in one way or another.
The more speakers and references that you can master at creating a solid mix better mixing engineer you will be overall. It is very common for studios to have multiple sets of monitors in the studio along with a crappy boombox. This shitty boombox or computer speakers can be immediately revealing of the quality of your mix. If you have them available, learn and use these tools to your advantage
Also, I agree with you about not having dynamic recordings and stuff... but there are plenty of ways to make dynamic, interesting, and exciting music in a balanced mix. These tracks that are yelling very loud at you have less to do with the mix but more with the contents and intensity of the music.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the sake of art, i.e. i really like how this bass overlaps or is going out of phase and sounds interesting. These are artistic choices... but at the end of the day if many speakers can't reproduce this exactly like your studio or one of your massive reggae sound rigs with custom horns your are simply inhibiting your audience and people are more than likely going to press skip when they come across your music.
What I'm getting at is there is an element of the mix that is less artistic and there is a technical process that shouldn't be overlooked.
Anyways... to the original poster there are plenty of posts and information here... good or bad... and many more if you do some searching... keep experimenting, build your own process, share it with friends and evolve. good luck!
a well mix and balanced song is going to play on a variety systems with the exception of some reproduction variation obviously...example ipod headphones aren't going to have amazing bass reproduction but the idea is that the music comes across in some way that works in those situations and doesn't sound flat or overly compensated in one way or another.
The more speakers and references that you can master at creating a solid mix better mixing engineer you will be overall. It is very common for studios to have multiple sets of monitors in the studio along with a crappy boombox. This shitty boombox or computer speakers can be immediately revealing of the quality of your mix. If you have them available, learn and use these tools to your advantage
Also, I agree with you about not having dynamic recordings and stuff... but there are plenty of ways to make dynamic, interesting, and exciting music in a balanced mix. These tracks that are yelling very loud at you have less to do with the mix but more with the contents and intensity of the music.
Sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the sake of art, i.e. i really like how this bass overlaps or is going out of phase and sounds interesting. These are artistic choices... but at the end of the day if many speakers can't reproduce this exactly like your studio or one of your massive reggae sound rigs with custom horns your are simply inhibiting your audience and people are more than likely going to press skip when they come across your music.
What I'm getting at is there is an element of the mix that is less artistic and there is a technical process that shouldn't be overlooked.
Anyways... to the original poster there are plenty of posts and information here... good or bad... and many more if you do some searching... keep experimenting, build your own process, share it with friends and evolve. good luck!
------------------------------------------------------
http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest
http://soundcloud.com/kirkwoodwest
I agree with you, a good/well balanced mix is imperative. On a personal side note, I have to say I still have to practice a lot in that domain.
I also agree that listening to the mix/master on crappy monitoring can be informative. And maybe helpful for commercial music, since its mean is to make the more money possible (I don't judge that).
But, from our "alternative" point of view, should we use this crappy monitoring as a reference, meaning having to tweak our mix/master afterward ? I keep seeing this as an amputation.
I see your point though (about the sacrifice for sake of Art). I guess I would have nothing against it if people weren't massively listening to music on such terrible monitoring
I think I can resume my position with one question : is it possible to say for sure if iPod headphones monitoring is a valid/safe way to tell if a mix/master is well balanced ?
I also agree that listening to the mix/master on crappy monitoring can be informative. And maybe helpful for commercial music, since its mean is to make the more money possible (I don't judge that).
But, from our "alternative" point of view, should we use this crappy monitoring as a reference, meaning having to tweak our mix/master afterward ? I keep seeing this as an amputation.
I see your point though (about the sacrifice for sake of Art). I guess I would have nothing against it if people weren't massively listening to music on such terrible monitoring
I think I can resume my position with one question : is it possible to say for sure if iPod headphones monitoring is a valid/safe way to tell if a mix/master is well balanced ?
a good mix will also work on ipod headphones. Of course you won't hear the bass like in a club, but most of the time you can already here if it fits right or not. A good mix translates itself in every sound system.
something that i noticed with ipod headphones, is that you can check your midrange and high very, very good! Just play your song and lay your headphones on the table. Listen to the track from a distance and listen to the snappy sounds that might be too loud or too soft.
something that i noticed with ipod headphones, is that you can check your midrange and high very, very good! Just play your song and lay your headphones on the table. Listen to the track from a distance and listen to the snappy sounds that might be too loud or too soft.
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kristofason
- mnml maxi
- Posts: 932
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:18 pm
I know what you mean when you say that other peoples tracks sound lots better than yours on headphones, Ive been stumped as to why before. I think your sound will just get better over time, trial and error etc...
Try referencing the tracks you make through ur ipod headphones from early on in the production stage...
Try referencing the tracks you make through ur ipod headphones from early on in the production stage...