sequentix cirklon

[AK]

Thing is, i need to look for that creative potential with midi so that means modern sequencers. Not really up on it all yet but am i right in thinking these new sequencers that combine midi and cv/gate can trigger analog and midi gear in the same rig?

yes you can run both types of gear,
but theres nothing to stop you doing that with a self build analogue modular sequencer either, you would use a CV to midi converter module. infact you could build a modular sequencer just to run midi gear if you wanted to, it doesnt just have to be used with a modular set-up.

think of it like went its all cased up, its just like any 'modern' stand alone analogue sequencer, except its way better, infinitely more flexible and you designed it yourself. (thats not as difficult as it sounds)

( its going to cost you a grand though to get a really interesting sequencer )

just making you aware of the options bro

See, I need to figure/find all this stuff out. I had no idea i could literally build a sequencer with modules or anything. I would have to do some thorough research though in order to go that route. I'm not sure I'd have the time to do all that though to be honest.

Was looking on the Doepfer site at the sequencers there. A lot have been discontinued from what I can tell. The MAQ16/3 looks cool as does this:



Shaltwerk retailed at around a grand, no longer available so the used price should be fairly reasonable. Any experience with it?

[steevio]

i havent had experience of the schaltwerk, but it looks as good as any other analogue sequencer, but my feelings about sequencers are not going to change. these machines are not deep enough for me. theres no interconnectivity between the patterns.

[Robot Criminal]

sorry if OT but I saw some MPC discussion here too and would like to get an answer - which has the best sequencer? 2500? 4000?

[AK]

i havent had experience of the schaltwerk, but it looks as good as any other analogue sequencer, but my feelings about sequencers are not going to change. these machines are not deep enough for me. theres no interconnectivity between the patterns.

Not really sure what you're on about there. There's plenty of sequencing power from what I have read. Interconnectivity or unpredictability? The latter kinda scares me, I like to be in control (at least to some degree) on what's happening in my music. Otherwise how can I call it my music?

You seem to thrive on an almost Jazz-like approach, which is great if you're into that kinda thing. I tend to get ideas by first playing keyboard. 2 handed playing brings about ideas for harmony, bass and melody via the separation of midi data recorded. I then come across an idea on which I want to take further and to some degree, conventional sequencing allows me to do that. I'm just looking for a twist on that, a refreshing approach that might throw in a few suprises. Not looking to reinvent the wheel. Guess im gonna have to trust my own instincts on this.

[steevio]

i havent had experience of the schaltwerk, but it looks as good as any other analogue sequencer, but my feelings about sequencers are not going to change. these machines are not deep enough for me. theres no interconnectivity between the patterns.

Not really sure what you're on about there. There's plenty of sequencing power from what I have read. Interconnectivity or unpredictability? The latter kinda scares me, I like to be in control (at least to some degree) on what's happening in my music. Otherwise how can I call it my music?

You seem to thrive on an almost Jazz-like approach, which is great if you're into that kinda thing. I tend to get ideas by first playing keyboard. 2 handed playing brings about ideas for harmony, bass and melody via the separation of midi data recorded. I then come across an idea on which I want to take further and to some degree, conventional sequencing allows me to do that. I'm just looking for a twist on that, a refreshing approach that might throw in a few suprises. Not looking to reinvent the wheel. Guess im gonna have to trust my own instincts on this.

i wouldnt have known what i was on about 12 months ago.

theres nothing scary about it, its liberating. its not reinventing the wheel, its a different approach, it doesnt take away your musicianship, it enhances it.

i'm not sure why you would think it wasnt your music. when you play your keyboard and think you writing something original, you have to remember that the instrument is playing you too, its designed to make it easy for you to make certain combinations of notes in the very particular framework of 12tet, chances are those notes have been played in that order and combination thousands of times before.
i dont see a difference with sequencing. we are just re-ordering combinations of frequencies that work for us as musicians. its just a different instrument.

i think its all down to whether youre a technohead or not.

i only make these comments because this is a minimal techno forum, and this stuff is pure techno, its what techno is all about, using machines to make music, the better the machine, the more immedeate and ergonomic, the less restrictive, the more the ideas flow.
ive been making techno in the conventional way for a while and the limitations were becoming glaringly obvious, its why its become stale in lots of ways, its why everyone is going back to the source and appreciating the original sh!t, because those guys had it nailed right from the start.

time to move on.

nice lively discussion !

[AK]

My ideas come from playing stuff in but I dont leave it there. Usually, i set up a keyboard split and hit rec playing bass in left and chords/phrases in the right along to a metronome. I just see where I go and rec for a fair while. I go back after and delete stuff and group interesting stuff as its only midi. I dont just 'play' and thats it. Its just where my initial ideas come from.

From there on, i just have an idea and a bunch of midi which i then start playing with via other synths/sounds, splitting notes into patterns, step sequencing, whatever but point being, im only playing initially. I might have rec 20 mins of jamming and then get interested by only a few bars out the whole lot and then that will be enough to trigger me into an idea. The rest is very rarely played in by hand (except maybe my bass, I go get more expressive bass playing in)

I cant leave my playing as the parts for my music - at least not for the style of music im interested in. I have a natural tendency to play funky and swinglike, which isnt really what im trying to achieve hence me playing for harmonic ideas only.

Ive never liked rigid techno though and do like a bit of funk, id never get a sequencer that didnt feature shuffle for instance. I like a blend of both, theres some great techno thats been played in over the yrs and whilst im not trying to achieve that sound, I also want to avoid the pitfalls of programming notes in. This is what i hear on a lot of beatport stuff, theres just no personality or soul in a lot of it, nothing of the artist is being captured in a physical sense and every track could have been made by any of them. Obviously thats not a blanket statement but theres a lot of it. I think you have to be particularly gifted to fire up a sequencer, start mousing notes in and be able to come up with something sophisticated and fresh right off the bat. Ive tried it, ive had no idea what i wanted to do, no direction and just ended up watching a 4 bar loop repeat itself for 2 hrs.

Ok so that probably explains why i play stuff in initially, now the analog sequencer route came into my head after reading about how they can work. Ie: pendulum style sep, patterns of different lengths running together, skipping notes and random readjustments etc. I envisaged dumping some of my midi ideas in there from playing and seeing where I went from there. Seems a nice refreshing approach to me, at least it has no linear structure and isnt contrived. I tried to do this in lives session view and recorded arrangements on the fly in wavelab but its not enough, you still have to give thought to scenes and clips and ultimately, it means getting bogged down again.

In regard to playing, I know a guy who writes electro, ironically though, his musical ideas beging with an acoustic guitar.

[oblioblioblio]

i think good analog sequencing can be the best of both worlds. A way to play live with stored values.

[steevio]

I think you have to be particularly gifted to fire up a sequencer, start mousing notes in and be able to come up with something sophisticated and fresh right off the bat. Ive tried it, ive had no idea what i wanted to do, no direction and just ended up watching a 4 bar loop repeat itself for 2 hrs.

your way of making music sounds really interesting, and i totally agree with your point about putting some of yourself in there.

my comments are only aimed at the advantages of a self build sequencer over something that has been designed with certain preconceptions of what people are going to do with it.

the difference is, you do have direction, because you start with the ideas in your head about how you want to make the music, then you make it happen.
its the opposite of trancing yourself out to a 4 barloop for hours, you're deeply engaged with the process the whole time, you're deep inside the structure of the music.

man, i gotta STFU and get back in the studio