mystify 909 jacking groove

[steevio]

You could compress to high heaven but the groove remains unaffected in terms of its timing

I do absolutely agree with steevio on this point, the attack and decay can be changed and therefore the groove is affected too.

I'm currious if there was a 'typical' signal chain back in the days.

Im sure you know what i mean. Compression is itself not responsible for the jacking groove. The amount of envelope alteration by gate, compression or expansion is itself not directly responsible for the timing. The groove was there initially. Hell, why not throw reverb in there too then. Its terribly pedantic to argue this point.

pedantic bro ?, you can seriously mess with a groove with a compressor. especially when it comes to bass, which has a major part to play in the groove.
the timing of your sequence is only a starting point.
however like i said in my post, youre right, its not the most important factor, but it is relevant. pumping was a very common groove technique back then.
i'm not just being argumentative for the sake of it bro.

[AK]

the way the statement was initially phrased seemed to suggest that compression was itself directly responsible for the 'swing factor' or timing. What compression does to the shaping of individual drum transients within the drum mix/across a drum buss is not the angle im coming from.

As an example, say i have an 8bar drumloop written, which is rigidly quantised to 16ths, any subsequent dynamics processing is not going to move the hits about from their original quantised positions so, the initial groove remains unaffected. Irrespective of velocity, transient shape and drum tail.

When you create a beat with some loose timing to create a groove then say change the kit, you still have that groove even though each individual drum sound may have different envelope shapings.

If compression altered timing, the use of NY compression would never work because the heavily compressed signal would cause flams and other timing anomalies when summed with the uncompressed signal.

I think theres maybe some confusion as to what im on about and how i read that earlier post and what angle you are coming from.

[::BLM::]

The D16 machine's are great emulators so surely one could achieve similar results.
I've noticed some of those old house tracks are squashed to high heaven with compression and would presume this helped in the jacking process.

new tracks are generally a lot more compressed.

i wasn't that impressed with the D16 909 and 808. they seem a bit lifeless.

I love them. I started using them once I heard Levon Vincent uses them.

[steevio]

I think theres maybe some confusion as to what im on about and how i read that earlier post and what angle you are coming from.

yeah must be talking about different things. i always use envelope shaping of various types to create swings and grooves in otherwise rigidly quantised material, i dont really understand your point.

[tone-def]

The D16 machine's are great emulators so surely one could achieve similar results.
I've noticed some of those old house tracks are squashed to high heaven with compression and would presume this helped in the jacking process.

new tracks are generally a lot more compressed.

i wasn't that impressed with the D16 909 and 808. they seem a bit lifeless.

I love them. I started using them once I heard Levon Vincent uses them.

i only played with the demo for a while.
i wonder if Levon Vincent is totally ITB? his tunes have got a rawness to them, which i like.

[damagedgoods]

I'm sure Roland must have thought of re-releasing stuff. Can' really see why not. Production costs must be so much cheaper today. Someonelikeyou.

it's a lot cheaper and easier to make digital instruments. a real 909 would cost a lot more to build than roland's current products. don't forget profit is the most important thing in the world.
Roland don't employ any analogue engineers who could make a 909. their all computer programmers.
it's old technology. look at what the MC-909 can do. you can make a whole tracks on it. what would roland's new generation of customers think of something with just drums?
customers will complain that it's not as good as the original even if it's exactly the same.

You're right, but I doubt this is why Roland have never reissued the classic machines. There'd be plenty of profit to be made if they did, but I think there's a solid marketing argument to refuse to ever reissue them and maintain the Roland legend. People wouldn't be half as interested in 808s and 909s if they were still made today.

[::BLM::]

The D16 machine's are great emulators so surely one could achieve similar results.
I've noticed some of those old house tracks are squashed to high heaven with compression and would presume this helped in the jacking process.

new tracks are generally a lot more compressed.

i wasn't that impressed with the D16 909 and 808. they seem a bit lifeless.

I love them. I started using them once I heard Levon Vincent uses them.

i only played with the demo for a while.
i wonder if Levon Vincent is totally ITB? his tunes have got a rawness to them, which i like.

Yeah he is ITB. I spoke to him not so long ago. He uses a MIDAS mixing board for mixing (remember the one I asked about a few months ago?), but the rest is ITB.

[tone-def]

The D16 machine's are great emulators so surely one could achieve similar results.
I've noticed some of those old house tracks are squashed to high heaven with compression and would presume this helped in the jacking process.

new tracks are generally a lot more compressed.

i wasn't that impressed with the D16 909 and 808. they seem a bit lifeless.

I love them. I started using them once I heard Levon Vincent uses them.

i only played with the demo for a while.
i wonder if Levon Vincent is totally ITB? his tunes have got a rawness to them, which i like.

Yeah he is ITB. I spoke to him not so long ago. He uses a MIDAS mixing board for mixing (remember the one I asked about a few months ago?), but the rest is ITB.

cool, that's the kind of setup i'm aiming for now. computer, mixer and a few bits of hardware.