who are your influences?

[oblioblioblio]

what's the equivalent to open tunings on a guitar?

really love the sound of that... dunno if that's more of a timbral kinda thing from having a higher pitch 'density', with multiple strings playing more or less the same note. And obviously frets are still 12tET.

[oblioblioblio]

i think my favourite examples of harmony/tonality etc are My Bloody Valentine 'Loveless' and Animal Collective 'Campfire Songs'. Heavily routed in 12tET, but with heavy attention to alterations in density and texture.

[AK]

12 tet is, actually out of tune. The octave is perfect but the other ratios are not. It's been a while since I read up on this but the older tuning system (Pythagorean tuning) had better intervals based on mathematical ratios but threw up a 'dodgy 5th' somewhere down the line of frequencies and just intonation compensates by slight adjustments in the frequencies of the intervals thereby eradicating the 'dodgy 5th' (theres a name for it but it escapes me now) but anyway, the slight adjustment means its poses imperfections, although Im guessing its going to be hard to hear them.

Microtonality messes with my head, at least the math and ratios do. I wouldnt know how to tune a synth/s to something outside of 12tet even if I wanted to. Thing is, even if you did, it's likely that you'd approach a composition in a 12tet mindset. Ie: playing a diatonic scale in say 24tet or any other temperament and thats gonna sound pretty weird.

Id like to try the pythagorean tuning, you do get that dodgy 5th further down the line but initially, im sure the minor 3rds are more 'minor' (shorter?) and the 5ths are more perfect, which could be interesting but maybe too subtle unless a blind comparison took place. Other, more distant tuning systems are potentially a mindfck, too way out to me, i reckon youd have to approach them without 12tet in mind. I mean completely.

[oblioblioblio]

i think in shapes/feeling with tuning. maybe i need to go down the maths rabbit hole a bit, but I also like my current method. it isn't tied to any theory in particular.

great software for tuning is at nonoctave.com

not good for hardware tho, but I think there are possiblities. there are some modules that will allow microtonal tuning of CV, but not without some fiddling around.

i think you might appreciate being able to play around with non tradional tuning systems. even if you decide you don't like it.

But like I say, the records, which for me strike the deepest chords are rooted in 12tET, with its imperfections. I've spent 2 or 3 years working with non 12tET .

[steevio]

12 tet is, actually out of tune. The octave is perfect but the other ratios are not. It's been a while since I read up on this but the older tuning system (Pythagorean tuning) had better intervals based on mathematical ratios but threw up a 'dodgy 5th' somewhere down the line of frequencies and just intonation compensates by slight adjustments in the frequencies of the intervals thereby eradicating the 'dodgy 5th' (theres a name for it but it escapes me now) but anyway, the slight adjustment means its poses imperfections, although Im guessing its going to be hard to hear them.

not sure what you mean by the dodgy fifth, harmonically the perfect fifth is the only other partial apart from the octave, which is 'almost' perfect only a few cents out,(the perfect 5th is the 3rd harmonic just for confusion)
its the other 12tet intervals which are 'dodgy'
the 7th, 11th, 13th harmonics etc, some of them as much as a 50 cents out.

its certainly not hard to hear the adjustments of 12 tet away from harmonic tuning. if you tune two oscillators to any interval other than the octave by ear, till there is almost no beating between the waves, you'll find that it wont be tuned to 12tet. and if you do tune it into 12tet (using the data on the screen of your synth) you'll hear it start beating and sounding dischordant.

[tone-def]

i feel 12tet is good enough for me. i really can image using anything else and if i just tuned oscillators by ear i'm pretty sure it will fit into 12tet. maybe the tuning will be a bit out but i don't care if A=440Hz, it's the distance between notes i'm talking about.

[steevio]

Its not ot mate, its all influential stuff to me.
I'd have to give that a try, although im not quite sure what you mean. I like using chords that people dont use that often because like you, I get the almost cliche factor feeling. At least with the more obvious chords but im not following you on the balancing osc/waveform thing. Sounds interesting.

I should expose myself to music outside of 12tet too. That could be eye opening.

it would take a long post to explain exactly what i mean, but as a taster,

any waveform other than a sinewave is effectively already a chord,
its a fundamental sinewave tone with harmonics which are other sinewaves at other mathematically related frequencies.

by modualting the pulse width of a waveform, you are effectively changing the balance of those harmonics, therefore changing the chord. throw in filters etc. and you are removing and adding notes to the chord.

you can pretty much play a tune on one single oscillator at one fundamental frequency with filters and PWM.

now throw in another couple of oscillators tuned to harmonic intervals, which can be similarly modulated, and by modulating the balance between them, you can now play a very complex tune made up of complex chords, without even changing the tuning of the ocscillators.

in other words you can pay complex tunes with only one note played on a 3 VCO monosynth.

if you did this with no envelopes involved it would sound like a drone, or a drifting pad, but throw in envelopes to frame snapshots in time of the changing modulations and you've got a tune.
no need to play obvious 12tet chords on a polysynth, well not for techno anyway.
i think the power of a top quality monosynth like the voyager, is way underestimated, with a modular you can go way deeper still.

playing chords on a keyboard is always going to make your music sound traditional, if you want to get away from that, mess with waveforms, go deep.

[AK]

The only issue I have with that is the amplitude of the partials in the waveform. Say we have an A/440 sawtooth, the fundamental being obviously 440hz, the next partial is 880hz which is an 8ve higher and half the amplitude, then we get 1320hz almost an E6 note. Then we get to another A note and next is nearly a C#, by this time we wouldnt hear the 'notes' because of the amplitude halving, and even if we could hear the 5th harmonic, we are only talking a near major chord which obviously isnt very exciting. I worked out that if we go down to the 10th harmonic, we end up near to this bunch of notes: (omitting the repeat 8ve's) A, E, C#, F#, B.

So even after only 10 partials, theres obviously 'chords' although we dont hear them as that because of the amplitude and they dont fall on chromatic notes, some being more off than others.

What might be interesting is to balance a bunch of frequencies from the harmonic series with a view to composing with them. Ie: a mix of pure sine waves. It wouldnt be 12tet so may sound seriously awful. But by fluctuating the amplitude of the partials, you should, in theory be able to create waveforms and a tune of sorts. I guess im describing additive synthesis to some degree.