techno isnt about the past, its about the future

[Shepherd_of_Anu]

I agree with this thread in general, I do think techno is taking a step back... and I do agree that most of it is unhealthy.

On a personal level, however, I am all for it.

Perhaps for some people it represents a 90's revival, and I can totally see that as I myself am returning to some of the ideas and sounds I was fascinated by in the 90's.

As to having some nostalgic ideas, yes, they are also there... but I think in the 90's I was a lot more focused on machine sounds and some sort of cybernetic future.

I have not been so thru most of the new millennium, what with the instant ableton to beatport phenomenon.

I think as everything went digital the small fry like me stopped thinking about Blade Runner and started thinking a lot about having a slick t-shirt, tight pants and being famous... this was stuff I never thought about before Richie grew his comb-over and started working for Native Instruments and peddling plastic DJ products.

So, in every way, I consider my giant rewind to the moment when I was thinking clearly about machine music a good thing.

I might be cliche in my approach (I am one of these 909/303/hardware guys), but I am thinking of wormholes and Arrakis, Spiceworms, Dune, cyborgs, aliens, and scary mind control conspiracies again... and this is right where I need to be.

And ironically, since I made this big recoil, without dropping any names I will just say that my recent output finally got some positive feedback from some of my biggest influences in this thing called techno.

i am very happy to be back imagining the future.

You are just coming of age man...that's all it is. We have all gone through it. You are starting to recognize that it only takes one voice to be musical...if you know how to play it. When those guys used to reference "the future" in their concepts and music it wasn't about technology. The future was a positive look forward. To a world without mental chains. It was a concept of hope. The technology of the time fit nicely into this concept. What is so hard to explain to the younger generation is that there was NO SUCH THING as computers as we know them now. Synthesizers were state of the art machines. You guys were born with computers in your hands. You were sold on them from day one. You drank the electric cool aid. Computers are very useful in production and in music...in moderation, like everything else. It has it's place. Those guys had no idea computers would become so mundane and such a hindrance to living a healthy life. We all go through what you are experiencing as musicians...it's just growing up man. You spent all this time learning sound synthesis... a good thing...but now you are ready to learn how to make music. Most young aspiring musicians drop off the map when this time comes. They go into production, or mastering, or marketing work (what they are used to). Learning music is the most difficult and rewarding part of all this. That's why it takes decades to become a good musician.

I find the contrast and similarities of the two preceding statements very, very interesting.

all sound which we perceive is in the past. all music is about the past, it was created there.

This brings an interesting thought to mind. Tonight I was reading about Scalar Fields in mathematics. One of the requirements of Scalar Fields is that any two parties using the same units must agree on the value of a coordinate in space or spacetime. This whole subject of space time got me thinking about the relativity of perspective when it comes to time and space. Something may have been created in the past which was a vision of the future but it does not mean that two individuals at different coordinates in time could not agree that the time envisioned was not in the future. I like to think that hope in an infinite concept and that hopes should not be restricted to specific expectations or timelines. Hope for the future should not die because a person had it 20 years ago. The future can be an infinitely small fraction of time from now or an infinite time from now where hope is still applicable. Constraining to a timeline is risky business because should that deadline pass then what do you have? Hopelessness? It might satisfy your appetite for darkness but its not good enough for me. If it is for you then so be it, let your soul rot.

Personally I hate people who are into techno culture (as I perceive it). Its fucking pathetic (if I had sympathy) how short termed their memories are. One moment they love this "fresh" sound and three months later its stale and monotonous... failing to evolve to new heights. fck you. You people fucking suck. You are trend whores and that is all you are. It doesn't matter if you have been tread whoring for two weeks or 10 years. You are still a trend whore. Something is either good or it is not. I can listen to music that is from 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago and it is either good or it is not. It is not complicated. Baroque for instance was prevalent for 200 years. Techno has been around for what? 20 years? Is the music so bad that it cannot stand the test of even a single life time? what does that say for those of you who have spend so much of your time and energy on techno and electronic music in general? Pretty sad story IMO.

Innovation is only a temporary fix, evolution cannot be forced.

[kdgh]

quite a sad topic indeed...

Just find the artists that makes interesting sounds. Just enjoy music and don't think about it too much. Music is not about rational thoughts. Those are feelings of the artists. Like or dislike them. Don't make yourself too paranoid about others who don't make music you like!

Maybe the artists are evolving, but the listeners are still stuck in the 80's/90's sound.

[AK]

Indeed. The actual title of this thread is sad in itself, 'techno is not about the past its about the future'? Bollox! Its about whatever i want it to be about. Since when did anyone in this thread have the authority to dictate what other peoples music should or shouldnt be about. Absolute fecking nonesence!

From the time you start listening to this type of crap is the time you start denying your own musical freedom. Music is personal, its a form of total individualism that has inspiration taken from a wide range of sources. Its how you interpret, digest and spit out that influence that defines you as a musician. To be searching for new ideas and an ever evolving sense of challenging concepts is far more important than trying to write music about the state of the world in the year 3 f@cking thousand!

If thats what techno is, i dont want to be a part of it. I just want to make music using my own concepts, sounds and ideas and to keep trying to push those things to give me a constant sense of freshness and motivation. Once i start listening to other people telling me what i should and shouldnt be writing music about, i may as well call it a day and so should everyone else.

Its quite an aggressive thread title and implies he's the last word on techno and this is what everyone should be doing. Hmm right.

[steevio]

From the time you start listening to this type of crap is the time you start denying your own musical freedom. Music is personal, its a form of total individualism that has inspiration taken from a wide range of sources. Its how you interpret, digest and spit out that influence that defines you as a musician. To be searching for new ideas and an ever evolving sense of challenging concepts is far more important than trying to write music about the state of the world in the year 3 f@cking thousand!

If thats what techno is, i dont want to be a part of it. I just want to make music using my own concepts, sounds and ideas and to keep trying to push those things to give me a constant sense of freshness and motivation. Once i start listening to other people telling me what i should and shouldnt be writing music about, i may as well call it a day and so should everyone else.

well said.

[steevio]

Personally I hate people who are into techno culture (as I perceive it). Its fcking pathetic (if I had sympathy) how short termed their memories are. One moment they love this "fresh" sound and three months later its stale and monotonous... failing to evolve to new heights. fck you. You people fcking suck. You are trend whores and that is all you are.

perspectives may differ, as do opinions on style, innovation, evolution etc, but generally ive found my experience within music be one of brotherhood.

thankfully its rare to encounter pure unadulterated hatred.

[Torque]

Hmm, why would one wish to write music about the year 3000? That in itself doesnt define techno in my book. By that definition, ANY music based on futurism is potentially techno. And I dont think so.

People will call it whatever they call it regardless of what the person made it thought. Not all music based on futurism can really all be called techno. However music without futurism can in no way be techno music as it was intended from the inception of it.

I thought it was odd to say techno isnt 'dance music with techno sounds'. If its not, what is it? If i said, heres a track based on a post apocalyptic world in the year 3000, is that then techno?

If another person that hears it agrees with you then yes. It should connect with the listener on that level. If an IDM artist makes an IDM track and calls it house does that make it house? How often would it show up in the house category in beatport?

Why all the fuss about what is what? sh!t, just take your influences and make interesting and exciting music, if some moron wants to pigeon hole it, let them do it. Personally, i think these people have far too much time on their hands and just need to get out more.

agreed
But everybody will always have thier own opinion just as you do regardless of what an artist or anybody else thinks.


Anyway, by the year 3000, all life on earth will have ceased to exist so there will be no sound so you cant write music about it. If a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? No.

Depends on the future you imagine but even if, you can't say they'll be no sound because the earth itself makes sound with or without an atmosphere. If it still has an atmosphere there will be all sorts of sounds like wind blowing, ocean waves and whatnot. There's plenty of opportunity to describe that landscape with music. Anything can have a soundtrack.

The reason i even decided to chime in on a topic that started out as ridiculous as this is to present another way of thinking about techno other than just a set formula. Some people are going to understand it and some aren't. The ones that get it are far more likely to run across something new than ones that don't. Techno is religion, art and science all at the same time. It's like alchemy and we're all trying to create the philosophers stone. By it's very nature it's always been very abstract and this is why it will never be pop music. The best examples force the listener to think and most people and artists don't want to bother with that. People will always make music however they see fit.

[AK]

But earlier you stated that techno is nothing more than a soundtrack of what you imagine the future to be.

This is in obvious reference to juan atkins citing alvin toffler as a form of inspiration. The problem here is that you have took a single concept and based a whole argument around it and claimed 'futurism' IS techno, when clearly it isnt. If you wish to adopt a sort of purist approach, then you must realise that other forms of music are inspired by futurism too and are clearly NOT techno. Indeed, curtis mayfield wrote 'future shock' the very name of one of tofflers books - later covered by hancock in a jazz fusion stylee. These are inspired by futurism but have nothing to do with techno. Inspiration and musical output are 2 very different things.

It should also be said that the inspiration drawn from toffler was only a small part of the inspirational package. It certainly wasnt the concept on which everything was based. Musical influence from soul, funk, rnb, was a major part and the eclectic music played by charles johnson. Ive read quite a lot of stuff on juan as he is one of my musical heroes and its suprising that we are even discussing the concept of futurism as the definition of techno.

Music can take influence from anything, there has been classical music based on love, war, human emotion, birdsong, futurism, science fiction and tons more. All of it is still classical regardless of the inspiration behind it.

Half the time, juan has said he had no clue or plan to a track, he'd just sit there and see what happened. Other times the gear used was the inspiration.

Im not succumbing to the idea that techno is futurism and im really not sure what is meant by 'techno isnt music'. Ive nothing against futurism, what i have got an issue with is someone telling me, in order for my music to be techno, it need to involve futuristic concepts. Techno for me, is more of a spiritual and philosophical concept and actually, to quote juan, seems it affected him this way too.

(quote) 'its about escape sometimes, about being able to fantasize of being on a different planet, a different dimension. You know that there has to be more to it than what is right here'.

[coldfuture]

Um, technically (pun intended) it wouldn't just be a reference to anything Juan said, it would be a lot of people citing futurism and science fiction and a recognition of either entropy or the move to a utopian future that is found conceptually in so many Detroit and European artists that I can't be arsed to name them all here.

We could simply name a few tho, UR, Jeff Mills, Robert Hood, Kevin Saunderson, Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, etc, etc, etc.

Futurism is hardly a new thing, and associating it with techno is not as rare as one influence to one person, and all of the artists mentioned are not so similar that one can cite the music as being the sole tie of commonality. Mad Mike Banks has even said that he is waiting for some "future motherfuckers" to come through, leading one to believe that the music is not independent of the concept and even answers to the concept.

Its too easy to forget with this music that gobbling pills in a huge warehouse and being flattened by the kick drum 9 hours at a time was a result of looking forward and ushering in of what felt like a new era to all of us who were there to see the 80s turn into the 90s.

I agree that the overall meaning of techno as it has disseminated into culture is not necessarily retained to be futurism, but I do agree with Torque that there is something important in recognizing that it was so intended by quite a few pioneers.

Its been mentioned in this thread that we should ignore philosophy because its killing the music or something along those lines. If your music is being killed by typing out a few paragraphs in a forum, then you really need to spend some more time learning how to make music! ROFL I mean if you get stuck that easily, then I don't know what to say.

I am going to record an acid track this afternoon and this discussion will at the very least inspire me, but it will in no way stop me from making music exactly as I want to while imagining automated clone factories producing replicants at bargain cost.

If you find that music inspires itself, and the latest mnml-dubfire-hotchoonz are enough to justify your existence, then go for it. Myself, I try to maintain a healthy distance from that circle jerk by keeping my music tied to bigger ideas.