Limiter in the mix

JayRP · Post by **JayRP** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:00 pm

can someone explain to me exactly what headroom is really? i think i get the concept but id like some more info. i was reading an interview in some mag (futuremusic or computer music, one of those) and they were talking about the gear in this guys studio and he was talking about his limiter, but he said he didnt even use it to limit, that he just ran the audio signals through it because it gave the tracks this "amazing headroom" and i just dont completely understand what he meant by that. i know now that i want amazing headroom in my tracks too tho! LOL

hebb · Post by **hebb** » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:57 pm

JayRP wrote:can someone explain to me exactly what headroom is really? i think i get the concept but id like some more info. i was reading an interview in some mag (futuremusic or computer music, one of those) and they were talking about the gear in this guys studio and he was talking about his limiter, but he said he didnt even use it to limit, that he just ran the audio signals through it because it gave the tracks this "amazing headroom" and i just dont completely understand what he meant by that. i know now that i want amazing headroom in my tracks too tho! LOL

It's pretty straight forward, if your sound peaks at -2 db then you have 2 db headroom. Maybe you already knew this but that's all there is to say about it.

Sounds like that guy was using it as a brick-wall limiter.

Torque · Post by **Torque** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:45 pm

Limiters are for mastering engineers
I can't really think of a sane reason to use them in a mixdown. Dynamics are a good thing and if you kill all the dynamics people wont dance. Notice how the fall of dance music in the worldwide market matches up exactly with the loss of dynamics in the music. Louder is not better and if you don't know how to get it louder without maintaining dynamics do yourself a favor and don't touch a limiter.

kdgh · Post by **kdgh** » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:01 pm

limiters are great and can be very creative.

imagine a delay with such a big feedback it'll clip, but you like the sounds that its making just before the clipping. Put a limiter on it and it won't clip anymore.

Or... you have a synth and it sound is massive when its deeply lp, but when you touch the cutoff knob it'll clip. Limiter and the signal, won't clip anymore.

these are things that are VERY usefull within a mixdown.

but tho, do what you need to do. I know a limiter wont harm, tho in the OP situation i would just drag down the volume or try a volume envelope. I think the sound might have to harsh attack/transient. Make a little fade in and the clip could be gone.

simonb · Post by **simonb** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:48 pm

JayRP wrote:can someone explain to me exactly what headroom is really? i think i get the concept but id like somemore info.

It's the amount of additional volume that's available to you in the mix. 0dB on the master is your absolute maximum level before clipping takes place. Mastering engineers like it if you give them some headroom (say 6dB i.e. peaking at -6) as they've still got some remaining volume so they can do processing (e.g. EQ) that might affect the overall level and require that extra volume, and put it through their limiters which are probably better than yours

There's no real reason to have your mixes peaking anywhere near 0dB, as I said it's the absolute maximum, not a target to aim for. Especially now with the dynamic range that 24 bit audio gives you. If you've got clipping but you're otherwise happy with your levels, just do as BLM says and move all your channel levels down by a few dB.

Torque · Post by **Torque** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:19 pm

kdgh wrote:limiters are great and can be very creative.

imagine a delay with such a big feedback it'll clip, but you like the sounds that its making just before the clipping. Put a limiter on it and it won't clip anymore.

Or... you have a synth and it sound is massive when its deeply lp, but when you touch the cutoff knob it'll clip. Limiter and the signal, won't clip anymore.

these are things that are VERY usefull within a mixdown.

but tho, do what you need to do. I know a limiter wont harm, tho in the OP situation i would just drag down the volume or try a volume envelope. I think the sound might have to harsh attack/transient. Make a little fade in and the clip could be gone.

All those things you state can be solves with compression with a softer knee on it than 10/1. Limiters are a destructive tool they are meant to create square waves by design. All you're doing is erasing audio information and replacing it with noise. a softer knee like 2.5/1 or 5/1 will do the same job but add less noise and the wave won't be as square. Why would you purposely put in square waves just to have more distortion added in the mastering process. Better to just compress it softly and adjust the rest of your mix to fit. You'll end up with better clarity and better sounding masters in the end.

kdgh · Post by **kdgh** » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:01 pm

i wont try it with mastering lol. Just the sound itself and sometimes you want the noise sound like that

JayRP · Post by **JayRP** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:51 am

thanks simonb, for explaining clearly to me what headroom was, without saying anything like 'its pretty clear' or using the word 'headroom' to define headroom.