Analogue mixers

[eggnchips]

I recently bought the ZedR16, actually just received it 2 weeks ago. Seeing it's my first mixer, i can't really compare to anything, but here's my 2c:

I got it for 2 reason, because i needed more ins on my soundcard (as i got myself a few synths this year) and i wanted to get a more hands on experience. So instead of buying a mixer and a soundcard, i shopped around to find the best compromise. The other contender in the analogue mixer + soundcard was the Mackie OnyX-i series. But after reading reviews, and checking out the Zed at a friends place, i decided to go with it.

I won't go on about the specs of the mixer, as you can find them elsewhere, but here's what i really like, and what i kind of like not so much about it:
EQs: compared to soft EQs, i find they sound really good, and allow me to get much better instant good results. Mixing a track down, all of a sudden doesn't take a whole day .

Stereo image: getting a wide stereo image of a mix is much easier. For some reason, it really sounds larger than any mix i was doing ITB.

Audio interface: I've been re-mixing my latest projects with it, sending each individual track to a channel of the Zed and using the analogue EQs as well as driving the channels and again, it really opened them up, and allowed for a much better mix, at least to my ears.

Sends/Aux: this is imho one of the weak points of the mixer, you get 4 sends, but you can't send audio to them from your daw, so you need to "sacrifice" a channel on the mixer, only to send stuff to your analog fxs. The first 2 are pre-fader (which it seems can be switched to post-fader when opening the mixer), the others are post-fader.
There's no proper aux returns as well, instead you get four stereo channels, and 2 of them are with Low and Hi EQ. This where i return my reverbs and delay to. Those can also only be heard on the master out, otherwise you'd have to dedicate a channel (or two if it's a stereo fx) to your send fx.

Routing: the routing is imo where this mixer is really good at and the main reason i bought it for. You can virtually send stuff from and to your Daw to any of the 16 channels and this with very little fiddling with the latency compensation. I now have a setup, where some channels are coming from outboard synths sequenced from Ableton Live, some are VST going out through the mixer, and i even can use VST sends (both on analog channels, and virtual ones). Seeing as i don't have much outboard fxs, this really was an important selling point.

MIDI: all the faders can become MIDI controllers, which is pretty handy but i haven't used it like that yet... One thing it doesn't do however for some strange reason is send MIDI thru messages, ie you can't send the clock/MIDI cc from your DAW to your synths using the ZEDR16. So you'll need a dedicated MIDI interface for that.



this is quite a lot, maybe to much and a bit messy i got quite a fever here. Anyhow if you got specific questions about the Zed, i'll gladly do my best to reply.

All in all i'd say getting a mixer definitely changed my way fo making music for the better. I'm now forced to play the music rather than compose it, jamming with the mixer, the machines and recording take after takes of the same track until one is good.

So the ZEDR16 is also an audio interface? I have just spent a bit on an RME UC, but it's still sealed in the box.
If I am looking to spend around 500€ on mixer, and having just paid almost 900€ for the RME, maybe it would be an idea to take the RME back and get a ZEDR16. I like the idea of being able to use my DAW's effects as I don't have many outboard ones..

[steevio]

So the ZEDR16 is also an audio interface? I have just spent a bit on an RME UC, but it's still sealed in the box.
If I am looking to spend around 500€ on mixer, and having just paid almost 900€ for the RME, maybe it would be an idea to take the RME back and get a ZEDR16. I like the idea of being able to use my DAW's effects as I don't have many outboard ones..

its worth thinking hard before you return your soundcard.

a good quality stand alone soundcard is a must for me. i use mine in so many different ways, remember theres no gurantee you'll stick with the same desk especially a small one, ive had about 8 in the last 15 years, but ive only had two soundcards, my current card ive had for about 8 years.

desks inevitably become limiting, you buy a new synth and you've run out of channels, then a new effect, then another synth, and you lose alot of money selling it used, it will inevitably have a sratchy pot or fader or two.
remember each synth takes at least two mono channels, but if you've got multiple outputs it could be 6 or more! and its always best to bring your effects into channels with full EQ capabilities, rather than stereo returns or stereo channels with a 3 band EQ. if theres one place EQ is really important its for effects, much better than the onboard digital EQs of most effects.

my advice is always buy the best biggest desk you can afford allowing for future expansion.

you'll be supprised at how quickly this happens with a 16 ch desk, once you've got the hardware bug.

[eggnchips]

So the ZEDR16 is also an audio interface? I have just spent a bit on an RME UC, but it's still sealed in the box.
If I am looking to spend around 500€ on mixer, and having just paid almost 900€ for the RME, maybe it would be an idea to take the RME back and get a ZEDR16. I like the idea of being able to use my DAW's effects as I don't have many outboard ones..

its worth thinking hard before you return your soundcard.

a good quality stand alone soundcard is a must for me. i use mine in so many different ways, remember theres no gurantee you'll stick with the same desk especially a small one, ive had about 8 in the last 15 years, but ive only had two soundcards, my current card ive had for about 8 years.

desks inevitably become limiting, you buy a new synth and you've run out of channels, then a new effect, then another synth, and you lose alot of money selling it used, it will inevitably have a sratchy pot or fader or two.

my advice is always buy the best biggest desk you can afford allowing for future expansion.

you'll be supprised at how quickly this happens with a 16 ch desk, once you've got the hardware bug.

True, that's certainly a good point there.


Couple of more questions regarding mixers:
The budget end (500€) of the good mixer companies seem to offer mixers with only 3-4 band eq's.
This seems quite limited to me considering they are fixed frequencies. I can only compare this to my use of DJ mixers, and certainly wouldn't use a DJ mixer for mixing a track.
For example: How do you go about cutting the deep lows on your kicks etc., without going back in the box and resorting to the soft eqs?

I understand the concept of overdriving to get a warmer sound, but is it the signal going in to the mixer you overdrive? Is the sound always better, or is it the distortion you are after?

Thanks.

[::BLM::]

If it was me I would return your rme and get the zed16. If after a month you're not into it, you could always return the zed16 and buy the rme again.

[Opuswerk]

the ZedR16 is indeed also an audio interface.
It's true that 16 channels + 4 stereo returns do fill up quickly. But the ZEDR16 can be expanded via ADAT, so you can get 24 ins/outs.

I also thought about getting a good soundcard, but for the price of an RME with 16 ins/outs, i found the zedr16 to be quite competitive. I don't know how the AD/DA compare to RME, but at that price range, you get a lot, and imo it's already leaps away from the Ultralite mk3 i was using before.

[sorgenkind]

look for a used soundtracs mixer (they are discontinued) if you can possibly wait a bit longer and maybe stretch the buget a bit.
after years of research and patient waiting i got myself a soundtracs topaz project 8 (w/o vca automation)
it has very nice eqs, 8 BUSS, 6 sends and 4 returns (unfortunately returns are stereo trs plugs with no left=mono and the first 2 sends are pre-fader, unless you open up the whole thing and do some soldering) but the sound of it it's just yeah to my ears. smooth yet effective distorsion when overdriven, and it has pleny of headroom. it might take you some time to score one but I think its worth the wait. i paid 900 CHF (700 EUROs, so not too far from your actual budget) for a 32 channel w/meterbridge

http://www.studiosystems.co.uk/soundtracs/index.php

[lem]

For example: How do you go about cutting the deep lows on your kicks etc., without going back in the box and resorting to the soft eqs?

In my experience desk eq's are effect a much broader range than similar settings on a digital eq. If you need surgical eq, use software eq's or buy an external eq. I found more often that desks musicality is much more pleasing than cold digital precision. If it really needs tight filters and notches then digital eq seems to do the job just as well as most of the analogue outboard eq's I have used. (which isn't many I admit)

[lem]

look for a used soundtracs mixer (they are discontinued) if you can possibly wait a bit longer and maybe stretch the buget a bit.
after years of research and patient waiting i got myself a soundtracs topaz project 8 (w/o vca automation)
it has very nice eqs, 8 BUSS, 6 sends and 4 returns (unfortunately returns are stereo trs plugs with no left=mono and the first 2 sends are pre-fader, unless you open up the whole thing and do some soldering) but the sound of it it's just yeah to my ears. smooth yet effective distorsion when overdriven, and it has pleny of headroom. it might take you some time to score one but I think its worth the wait. i paid 900 CHF (700 EUROs, so not too far from your actual budget) for a 32 channel w/meterbridge

http://www.studiosystems.co.uk/soundtracs/index.php

They used to come up quite regularly in the UK, and they are big old things. Might not be an idea to get one before you move away.