Crosstown Rebels is finished ?????

[patrick bateman]

I have, and my label went down for the exact same reason. I'm still paying off the debt to this day. You know what I learned from it (and even moreso afterwards working for legitimate businesses)? Keep money in the bank! Sure there is a certain amount of artistry behind a music label, but people forget this is still a business industry. It's not all about playing gigs, taking trips to ibiza, and doing loads of coke. A smart businessman keeps money in the bank in case something goes wrong. This is the second time this has happened to Damian, don't you think he would have learned to do something different the second time?

In any industry there is always a downside. This happens to be one of them and you have to accept that you could take a huge loss at any instant. Like I said, if you're smart you can be ahead of everyone and make sure your ass is covered. Damian is a lot more fortunate than the smaller labels on Amato's list. He actually has the ability to come up with some cash which can be stashed for these kind of scenarios. There are a lot of smaller labels who can't afford to pay their artists because they don't make that much money in or outside of music. Those are the people I truly feel for.

Pheek, from a morale standpoint I completely agree. In this sense I truly feel for Damian. I think anybody who has stuck in this game for the long run will tell you they still have the "WTF" bouts on a weekly basis. Even the small tedious stuff in this industry is enough to overshadow the amazing perks of being an international DJ and producer. If closing the label is simply a case of morale, I hope Damian finds the inspiration he is looking for because it's a damn good label (but not as good as he likes to brag about. )

From a business standpoint, he kind of screwed up. Distributors going under (especially these days) are an extremely real possibility. It's stupid not to have a plan in case something happens (the music becomes "uncool" to buy, distributor goes under, etc.). A high-profile label owner may think "Well not my distributor, I'm a big label and we have things locked down" but take a look at Prime. The were on the brink of going from a big indie distributor to a small major distributor. They went under and some of the industries biggest labels, producers, and DJs lost waaay more backstock and money than Damian did. You say, "but Thomas, you have no proof!"

Common sense, logic, and looking at sales from the past will tell you there is a lot more backstock sitting around. Some of the heavy hitting labels on Prime easily surpassed the 10,000 mark on the debut of the release, with represses numbering in the thousands frequently. To pull off those sales these days are pretty difficult. Pheek, you're well connected it seems to ask a couple label owners at some point how the sales are compared to 2000ish. Labels that did 10,000 regularly are now happy with 2,000. They fell harder and they're still here today. My point is, Crosstown is a big label but I highly doubt they pressed up the sheer amount of numbers that these older labels did. I back up my assumption with the fact that Damian admits CR is starting to sell more MP3s than vinyl. I have to be honest, Beatport pays pretty damn well and they pay exactly on the week they say they will. So at least Damian has that money coming. How much can really be lost?

I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else. I'm also not hear to say "whoopty do Damian, big deal." I'm sorry if I come across as negative (some of it is I guess), but what we're dealing with here is easy Business 101 basics. And for Damian's sake, I really think it would be wise for him to keep CR going. The fans love it and it's what keeps him relevant. He's not a producer so without a label he's just a DJ. While he's a fairly decent DJ, there's a million others out there (and plenty on this board) who can do the same thing.

Good read, and needed after the first post which was a bit on the negative side of things.
And I think I agree on most of the points.

[bshosa]

I have, and my label went down for the exact same reason. I'm still paying off the debt to this day. You know what I learned from it (and even moreso afterwards working for legitimate businesses)? Keep money in the bank! Sure there is a certain amount of artistry behind a music label, but people forget this is still a business industry. It's not all about playing gigs, taking trips to ibiza, and doing loads of coke. A smart businessman keeps money in the bank in case something goes wrong. This is the second time this has happened to Damian, don't you think he would have learned to do something different the second time?

In any industry there is always a downside. This happens to be one of them and you have to accept that you could take a huge loss at any instant. Like I said, if you're smart you can be ahead of everyone and make sure your ass is covered. Damian is a lot more fortunate than the smaller labels on Amato's list. He actually has the ability to come up with some cash which can be stashed for these kind of scenarios. There are a lot of smaller labels who can't afford to pay their artists because they don't make that much money in or outside of music. Those are the people I truly feel for.

Pheek, from a morale standpoint I completely agree. In this sense I truly feel for Damian. I think anybody who has stuck in this game for the long run will tell you they still have the "WTF" bouts on a weekly basis. Even the small tedious stuff in this industry is enough to overshadow the amazing perks of being an international DJ and producer. If closing the label is simply a case of morale, I hope Damian finds the inspiration he is looking for because it's a damn good label (but not as good as he likes to brag about. )

From a business standpoint, he kind of screwed up. Distributors going under (especially these days) are an extremely real possibility. It's stupid not to have a plan in case something happens (the music becomes "uncool" to buy, distributor goes under, etc.). A high-profile label owner may think "Well not my distributor, I'm a big label and we have things locked down" but take a look at Prime. The were on the brink of going from a big indie distributor to a small major distributor. They went under and some of the industries biggest labels, producers, and DJs lost waaay more backstock and money than Damian did. You say, "but Thomas, you have no proof!"

Common sense, logic, and looking at sales from the past will tell you there is a lot more backstock sitting around. Some of the heavy hitting labels on Prime easily surpassed the 10,000 mark on the debut of the release, with represses numbering in the thousands frequently. To pull off those sales these days are pretty difficult. Pheek, you're well connected it seems to ask a couple label owners at some point how the sales are compared to 2000ish. Labels that did 10,000 regularly are now happy with 2,000. They fell harder and they're still here today. My point is, Crosstown is a big label but I highly doubt they pressed up the sheer amount of numbers that these older labels did. I back up my assumption with the fact that Damian admits CR is starting to sell more MP3s than vinyl. I have to be honest, Beatport pays pretty damn well and they pay exactly on the week they say they will. So at least Damian has that money coming. How much can really be lost?

I'm not here to argue with you or anyone else. I'm also not hear to say "whoopty do Damian, big deal." I'm sorry if I come across as negative (some of it is I guess), but what we're dealing with here is easy Business 101 basics. And for Damian's sake, I really think it would be wise for him to keep CR going. The fans love it and it's what keeps him relevant. He's not a producer so without a label he's just a DJ. While he's a fairly decent DJ, there's a million others out there (and plenty on this board) who can do the same thing.

Totally agree, also wouldn't also diss the first post of yours. CR has been making debts allaround for a while now, incl the artists ....
there still are some bills to pay, and these are not only the newest ones.
it hits ao friends of mine, who were waiting for their money for a while now.
I can still rememebr the situation with the old english distribution of Regis going bankrupt, which hit so many small labels, and Regis driving his Porsche at the same point of time, well .... it's hard to convince people, that's right ...
I've been also living i Germany to the point of the EFA disaster and seen some scenes that weren't even comparable to damian's one.

So please let's stay cool and realize the facts CR overinvested, they didn't pay the artists, they even sold the licence of Hey Consuelo to - Marc Romboy (sic!) but wanted to make an impression of being that fuckin' professional with the Rebels Agency and the label nights worldwide, somebody just overseen the facts and lost the touch with the presence. So if you can't run your business properly just don't ....

[Daniel Logikal]

hmmm before people on here start pointing the finger at CR's management, the management of Amato itself needs to be put under a microscope.

Courtsey of Test Industries music blog:

News that Amato, a UK-based vinyl distributor, had gone out of business, was greeted at the start of this week with the usual, simplistic ‘vinyl is dead’ catcall. Rather than argue the toss about which format is superior or which will sink or swim in what is becoming a tiresome, techno twist on social Darwinist debate, it is perhaps more constructive to look at the reasons for Amato’s collapse and consider the implications that it will have on this area of the music industry and, crucially, what lessons can be learnt for the future.

Amato’s demise is hardly setting a precedent: at the start of this decade, Prime, another UK-based vinyl distributor, which focused mainly on vinyl, closed down. However, the reason for this was not poor sales – some releases going through Prime were selling upwards of 20,000 units, ironically at a time when insightful commentators in UK broadsheets were declaring this style to be in the final throes of an ignominious death – but mismanagement. There was considerable demand for the product (much as that term is abhorrent to me when describing music), but it seemed that the people behind Prime simply did not know how to run their business properly, had no real grasp of ordering, selling, stock inventories, and consequently could not meet that demand. Prime was the first but by no means the last casualty: it was followed by Integrale and more recently Intergroove UK, but the parallels between Prime and what has happened to Amato and the consequences for the labels they represented are most striking. In both instances, some of the most popular electronic labels were represented: in the case of the former, it included nearly all of the leading loop techno outlets and in the case of the latter, UK house/techno stalwarts like 20/20 Vision, Freerange and Crosstown Rebels.

The similarities don’t end there: the story that is emerging about Amato - although it is wise at this early stage to stress that an official response/statement from the company outlining its version of events would be welcomed - is that again, poor management rather than poor sales was to blame for the company’s closure. Unfortunately, some of the labels Amato represented were locked into exclusive distribution deals and while others had the foresight to have a number of arrangements with other distributors, it will be difficult for any of the imprints affiliated with Amato to recover stock held at its warehouse.This places extra pressure on small labels that are already operating in an environment where vinyl sales are falling and where legal downloads are not making up the shortfall. It may well spell the end of some of the labels Amato represented - but it’s not all bad news.

There are still distribution options for vinyl labels in the UK, Veto and Blackhole being two of the most notable, while some small labels are still doing well from vinyl sales – Will Saul’s Simple/Aus imprints are a good example of a grassroots success story. Meanwhile, Berlin shop Hardwax, now in its fifteenth year, has had its most successful 12 months to date. While Amato closing will lead to a shake-up, this is not necessarily a bad thing: there is still a shockingly high level of sub-standard music making its way onto all formats, which Amato’s demise may address, while the other players in vinyl distribution, including Word & Sound and Intergroove Germany, will do well to cherry pick up the best of Amato’s roster, further sorting the wheat from the chaff.

Most importantly, the news sends out a clear signal for a need for fundamental change in the way that independent labels do business. Like the newspaper and magazine industry, which has to face down the erosion of sales due to a rise in broadband usage, it is time to adapt. Maybe now is the time to stop relying on third-party distributors to promote and sell releases and to deal with online and real life shops directly, to sell releases from their own websites, or for a group of small labels to form collectives along the lines of Holland’s Clone or Spain’s Net28, linked to a store with an online presence. The future might be full of uncertainties for electronic music’s availability in all formats, maybe more so now that Amato has gone, but the most important lesson to learn from this episode is that it’s time for independent labels to take control.

[gillsans]

Maybe now is the time to stop relying on third-party distributors to promote and sell releases and to deal with online and real life shops directly, to sell releases from their own websites, or for a group of small labels to form collectives along the lines of Holland’s Clone or Spain’s Net28, linked to a store with an online presence. The future might be full of uncertainties for electronic music’s availability in all formats, maybe more so now that Amato has gone, but the most important lesson to learn from this episode is that it’s time for independent labels to take control.

This is so true. We're going back to D.I.Y.

[pheek]

This is so true. We're going back to D.I.Y.

This sounds like a romantic idea more than a realistic one. I look at why distributors exist and some of the points that come to me would be (anyone can throw more if I forget some):

1. Reach a maximum of shops with the latest releases to make sure they get it while *its hot*
2. In theory, make it easier to collect money from lazy shops
3. Save money for shipping. This is a huge point here as shops make an order from X number of labels and all records gets in the same box.
4. Occasionally offer P&D

Basically, I'm not sure how the costs would be affected if each shops would need to pay for each shipping from every labels. Records might be more expansive in the end and as we all know how people are complaining about vinyls... sales would be affected. Another point would be, I'm not sure shops would want to pay all records in advance which makes it complicated for labels to deal with records who aren't sold.

This DIY might offer less chances to smaller labels and would make a lot more job for EVERYONE to get to a similar service we have at the moment.

Honestly, I always believed in DIY and that was one of the reason I started Archipel and a netlabel. I had that approach in mind for the CD but the sales are simply catastrophic. We get microscopic support and that is why I'm not really believing in it. People seem to go for mp3 version if they find it hard to find a CD and chances they will buy it afterwards are almost non-existent.

Things would need to be way different in the customer's world if labels want to go in that direction.

[gillsans]

Pheek, your projects encompass this ideology more then any others as of recently. With your netlabel, digital and vinyl releases Archipel oozes with your hard work and dedication.

[mlexicon]

will vinyl make a resurgance?.......ive seen a few big name djs make the total switch back to vinyl, and am considering the same as i just dont feel the music quite the same as when i did with viny. Its a sad thing, the same thing that allowed most of us to make music, is also taking a big part of our dream away from us.

[fugazi]

pheek rocks!