Mastered and Unmastered example

RichardLodge · Post by **RichardLodge** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:59 pm

Hey, was wondering if anybody who has had a track professionally mastered would be happy to post a mastered and unmastered clip, so that I can study the difference?

hydrogen · Post by **hydrogen** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:58 pm

this track sounds unmastered to me...

Seth Troxler Blues Ranch

its running at like -12db or more... This is one of the main secret to mixing ITB on ableton.

https://www.beatport.com/en-US/html/con ... s%20Brunch

Your digital meters aren't telling you the truth 100% of the time, you'd be surprised how many times you are clipping if you are driving so close to the reds in the digital realm.

I was doing some pre-master work for a good friend who claimed they were never clipping drop the master fader down -3db and it was still rocked at 0db on one of the channels. When its like this you can hear ableton smudge all over the mix.

damagedgoods · Post by **damagedgoods** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:10 am

hydrogen wrote:this track sounds unmastered to me...

Seth Troxler Blues Ranch

its running at like -12db or more... This is one of the main secret to mixing ITB on ableton.

https://www.beatport.com/en-US/html/con ... s%20Brunch

Your digital meters aren't telling you the truth 100% of the time, you'd be surprised how many times you are clipping if you are driving so close to the reds in the digital realm.

I was doing some pre-master work for a good friend who claimed they were never clipping drop the master fader down -3db and it was still rocked at 0db on one of the channels. When its like this you can hear ableton smudge all over the mix.

Oh christ. Yeah, it's good general mixing practice to run everything at -10 or so. But Ableton doesn't care whether you run at -10 or +10dB as long as you don't clip the master. We've been through this, remember?

http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... f11890df2a

hydrogen · Post by **hydrogen** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:40 am

damagedgoods wrote:Oh christ. Yeah, it's good general mixing practice to run everything at -10 or so. But Ableton doesn't care whether you run at -10 or +10dB as long as you don't clip the master. We've been through this, remember?

http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... f11890df2a

Ahh can't leave the past behind us.

Love it... But you only tested ableton specific plugins... What about gainstaging between non-ableton plugins? We have no idea what will happen inside a particular AU/VST... so... yeah... -10.

damagedgoods · Post by **damagedgoods** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:47 am

hydrogen wrote:
damagedgoods wrote:Oh christ. Yeah, it's good general mixing practice to run everything at -10 or so. But Ableton doesn't care whether you run at -10 or +10dB as long as you don't clip the master. We've been through this, remember?

http://www.mnml.nl/phpBB2/viewtopic.php ... f11890df2a
Ahh can't leave the past behind us. Love it... But you only tested ableton specific plugins... What about gainstaging between non-ableton plugins? We have no idea what will happen inside a particular AU/VST... so... yeah... -10.

Well yeah, but the debate was about Ableton, not what happens when you drive xyz plugin into the red. In any case, if a 3rd party plug clipped above 0dB, then a) that'd then be the case for every DAW and not just Ableton, and b) any 3rd party plugin worth its salt shouldn't clip anyway unless it's meant to (saturation, waveshapers etc).

I'm outta this topic now.

tone-def · Post by **tone-def** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:47 am

hydrogen wrote: its running at like -12db or more... This is one of the main secret to mixing ITB on ableton.

thats the secret to tracking and mixing ITB and it's not just ableton.

hydrogen · Post by **hydrogen** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:48 am

damagedgoods wrote:Well yeah, but the debate was about Ableton, not what happens when you drive xyz plugin into the red. In any case, if a 3rd party plug clipped above 0dB, then a) that'd then be the case for every DAW and not just Ableton, and b) any 3rd party plugin worth its salt shouldn't clip anyway unless it's meant to (saturation, waveshapers etc).

I'm outta this topic now.

good to note... thanks for the nfo... and right back at you on this one...

Brankis · Post by **Brankis** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:24 am

If host and all plugins in the chain are using floating point math (like ableton), you can ride every single gain stage "in the red" and it wont matter as long as the main output stays below digital maximum... this is a FACT

the -12 thing has nothing to do with ableton or any DAW. It's about your AD converter being driven up to 0db is why the sound gets muddy. Your converter will function optimally like all other analog gear when you feed it -12 cause that's 0db on the analog scale which is NOT the same as 0dbfs in your computer... Running your mix hot and making your prosumer converter provide that much voltage is why the sound gets "cloudy" "smeared" or whatever you want to call it. has nothing to do with the software at all