Hi
I have an issue with the sound quality of my tracks.
I try to explain:
Once rendered, my tracks sound like some frequencies were missing, there is no clarity and it sounds like a soup. Maybe not the best explanation, I hope you get me.
I produce in Ableton Live and here it is what I already do:
- use an EQ on every track
- try to avoid conflicts within frequencies (two sounds fighting in the same range)
- cut everything that is not bass at 120/200Hz
- avoid to use time stretch as much as possible, and complex mode (warping) for tones
I have monitors with a certain lack of response in the low end, so I try to compensate switching between monitors, headphones, different headphones then monitors again.
My basslines are often made of sine waves, I know it is difficult to handle, but it is more or less the only bass that suits my tracks.
I've tried more or less everything I'm aware of, but I still get this muddy / shabby sound.
When I listen to other tracks (also not mastered), and compare, I can really hear a big difference.
A couple of questions:
I know more or less how I can leave place for the bass, but how can I achieve the same for sounds in the middle or high range? Same process?
Should I buy a sub in order to have a better control over my low end?
Maybe switch to another DAW (eventually in Rewire) would change something? Not willing to start a debate about the sound quality of Ableto Live, but I often had the impression that Logic or Cubase and even Protools sound clearer.
What am I doing wrong?
Sorry if it is a little confused
Sound quality / Soup
i think the best thing you can do bro is post a clip, then youve got lots of guys listening with different monitors.
in my experience soup is usually caused with too much going on in the 100Hz to 600 hz area, whatever sounds you've got in there look at the spacing of the frequencies and their near harmonics.
i always space my first low mid sounds well above the higherbass notes, a gap in here will help clarify the higher mids, and bass
and dont have too much going in the low mids generally.
look at the actual notes youre using, dischordance in the bass and low mids is usually bad but might be very effective in the 400Hz upward s area
if your using chords look at the intervals in the low mids, make sure your chords are not too crowded
do all these checks before you start to EQ anything, EQ is quite often uneccesary if youre making your own sounds, but more likey to be needed if youre using samples.
i almost never EQ anything, but i dont use samples. if youre choosing your own frequencies for your sounds, choose the right ones in the first place, including the harmonics (in other words choose the right waveforms)
if youre using samples, check what frequencies are present with a spectrum analysizer.
in my experience soup is usually caused with too much going on in the 100Hz to 600 hz area, whatever sounds you've got in there look at the spacing of the frequencies and their near harmonics.
i always space my first low mid sounds well above the higherbass notes, a gap in here will help clarify the higher mids, and bass
and dont have too much going in the low mids generally.
look at the actual notes youre using, dischordance in the bass and low mids is usually bad but might be very effective in the 400Hz upward s area
if your using chords look at the intervals in the low mids, make sure your chords are not too crowded
do all these checks before you start to EQ anything, EQ is quite often uneccesary if youre making your own sounds, but more likey to be needed if youre using samples.
i almost never EQ anything, but i dont use samples. if youre choosing your own frequencies for your sounds, choose the right ones in the first place, including the harmonics (in other words choose the right waveforms)
if youre using samples, check what frequencies are present with a spectrum analysizer.
-
pafufta816
- mnml maxi
- Posts: 542
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:51 am
- Contact:
midrange is usually the culprit for me. having a busy highrange never gave me trouble, and we all know you can't crowd the low range. so to avoid midrange i often highpass and lowpass filter most of the tracks when i am mixing tracks. this way i carve out the middle of the freq range, which can be muddy and difficult to clean.
some music actually works well with a busy midrange area, ambient and industrial generally utilize the clausterphobic, cramped, inarticulateness of the midrange. i suggest that if you have a song that you have created, you are pleased with, take a spectrogram of it, or do a frequency analysis. then when you are mixing songs you can reference what freq's need to be cut or boosted.
some music actually works well with a busy midrange area, ambient and industrial generally utilize the clausterphobic, cramped, inarticulateness of the midrange. i suggest that if you have a song that you have created, you are pleased with, take a spectrogram of it, or do a frequency analysis. then when you are mixing songs you can reference what freq's need to be cut or boosted.
It does help when you are aware of the frequencies involved in your sounds as it's not just a sound design process, you are actually 'mixing' as you build your parts.
I like to look at stuff from a musical perspective too, the way you go about building up little riffs or motifs in a track will have a bearing on what sounds you will use and when. Sometimes I quite like chords played quite low but you have to be aware of how you phrase stuff musically which dertimines whether it will work. Obviously common sense should be applied too, you would be asking for trouble by swamping a mix with sounds that are all fighting for space.
Im not against eq or filtering but I just dont see it as an option for basic track building, theres no earthly reason why a mix cant sound very good without an eq in sight. At lot of the time, you just think holistically and whether you work from the bass end up or not, create sounds that are right for their role in the music and the frequency spectrum. So by doing that, you are doing a few things. You are, in effect 'mixing' as you create your sounds and those sounds will need to be phrased somehow so you are also sculpting that sound based on how it intends to fit into the music in and around other sounds. At least thats the kinda angle I come from.
Im not sure if its making sense but what im trying to say, is when you work holistically, you tend to avoid these type of mix issues in the first place purely by how you create and phrase the sounds in the music. Its not set in stone but it works.
I like to look at stuff from a musical perspective too, the way you go about building up little riffs or motifs in a track will have a bearing on what sounds you will use and when. Sometimes I quite like chords played quite low but you have to be aware of how you phrase stuff musically which dertimines whether it will work. Obviously common sense should be applied too, you would be asking for trouble by swamping a mix with sounds that are all fighting for space.
Im not against eq or filtering but I just dont see it as an option for basic track building, theres no earthly reason why a mix cant sound very good without an eq in sight. At lot of the time, you just think holistically and whether you work from the bass end up or not, create sounds that are right for their role in the music and the frequency spectrum. So by doing that, you are doing a few things. You are, in effect 'mixing' as you create your sounds and those sounds will need to be phrased somehow so you are also sculpting that sound based on how it intends to fit into the music in and around other sounds. At least thats the kinda angle I come from.
Im not sure if its making sense but what im trying to say, is when you work holistically, you tend to avoid these type of mix issues in the first place purely by how you create and phrase the sounds in the music. Its not set in stone but it works.
its also worth remembering that notching out mid frequencies of a mix with EQ or filter is easy to get completely wrong.
the mids are the frequencies we hear best, and if you look at the lowest fundamental frequencies of all the instruments in an orchestra for instance, you see that the majority of them start in the high beas / low mid region.
if you start notching here in an attempt to clean up the 'soup' you can also lose all the power and body of the music.
by EQ'ing the whole mix you are affecting absolutely everything in it.
say you notch at 300 Hz, the classic 'mud' frequency, you're affecting the punch of the bass and kick, and the body of the all sounds which are in the mids in general.
its much better to do what AK said and mix the sounds as you're building them and avoid putting too much in that region.
i also like to use low chords, which have fundamentals in the 150 - 250 Hz region, but if you chose your notes or rather your key carefully, you can try to avoid too much action in the 300 Hz area.
for instance say you have a chord with a D and E in at 147 and 165 Hz respectively, the second harmonics will fall at 298 and 330 Hz, its really suprising how just by using square waves which have no second harmonic, can completely open up the sound of the mix here,
you dont necessarily have to compromise your sounds, because you can always use other waveforms for the other notes in the chord.
equally by shifting your key up a few intervals this can help.
also inverting chords, or shifting a note in the chord up an octave if its in the muddy part of the spectrum.
lots of possibilities, experiment.
this means you dont have to do any coarse notching later in mixdown, because theres less there to notch in the first place.
for me careful tune construction is the key to absolutely everything.
the mids are the frequencies we hear best, and if you look at the lowest fundamental frequencies of all the instruments in an orchestra for instance, you see that the majority of them start in the high beas / low mid region.
if you start notching here in an attempt to clean up the 'soup' you can also lose all the power and body of the music.
by EQ'ing the whole mix you are affecting absolutely everything in it.
say you notch at 300 Hz, the classic 'mud' frequency, you're affecting the punch of the bass and kick, and the body of the all sounds which are in the mids in general.
its much better to do what AK said and mix the sounds as you're building them and avoid putting too much in that region.
i also like to use low chords, which have fundamentals in the 150 - 250 Hz region, but if you chose your notes or rather your key carefully, you can try to avoid too much action in the 300 Hz area.
for instance say you have a chord with a D and E in at 147 and 165 Hz respectively, the second harmonics will fall at 298 and 330 Hz, its really suprising how just by using square waves which have no second harmonic, can completely open up the sound of the mix here,
you dont necessarily have to compromise your sounds, because you can always use other waveforms for the other notes in the chord.
equally by shifting your key up a few intervals this can help.
also inverting chords, or shifting a note in the chord up an octave if its in the muddy part of the spectrum.
lots of possibilities, experiment.
this means you dont have to do any coarse notching later in mixdown, because theres less there to notch in the first place.
for me careful tune construction is the key to absolutely everything.
Last edited by steevio on Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I can totally relate with Manzatour (OP). This is something I am struggling with in my tracks as well and find it very hard to overcome. It basically means rethinking my approach to making electronic music. Really helpfull pointers so far but hard to put to practice as I like using both softsynths and samples (and with the last one, I don't have as much control on freq. content).
Until now, I just cut as many low freqs I could get away with on parts that I felt weren't contributing to the low end of the mix. But then again, I also liked to apply LP filters to darken the sound and have it fit the mix better. I ended up with parts mainly in the low mid region and it sounded muddy and weak.
So, without wanting to hijack Manzatour's thread (I suggest you post a link to your music), here is a link to some of my stuff of which I think has too much going on in the lowmid section. It lacks power and definition. I tried to fix this and tried different mixdowns without success. This may also be a monitoring issue as the position of my speakers is right up against the walls.
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/undertow
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/bayon
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/swamphouse
I'm going to try and build up my next track with the suggestions steevio and AK made and using synths only to see if I can get a solid and well defined mix.
Until now, I just cut as many low freqs I could get away with on parts that I felt weren't contributing to the low end of the mix. But then again, I also liked to apply LP filters to darken the sound and have it fit the mix better. I ended up with parts mainly in the low mid region and it sounded muddy and weak.
So, without wanting to hijack Manzatour's thread (I suggest you post a link to your music), here is a link to some of my stuff of which I think has too much going on in the lowmid section. It lacks power and definition. I tried to fix this and tried different mixdowns without success. This may also be a monitoring issue as the position of my speakers is right up against the walls.
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/undertow
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/bayon
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/swamphouse
I'm going to try and build up my next track with the suggestions steevio and AK made and using synths only to see if I can get a solid and well defined mix.
mate i can tell straight away whats wrong, you've got virtually no high mids at all, and your bass is a bit too loud.Camel wrote:I can totally relate with Manzatour (OP). This is something I am struggling with in my tracks as well and find it very hard to overcome. It basically means rethinking my approach to making electronic music. Really helpfull pointers so far but hard to put to practice as I like using both softsynths and samples (and with the last one, I don't have as much control on freq. content).
Until now, I just cut as many low freqs I could get away with on parts that I felt weren't contributing to the low end of the mix. But then again, I also liked to apply LP filters to darken the sound and have it fit the mix better. I ended up with parts mainly in the low mid region and it sounded muddy and weak.
So, without wanting to hijack Manzatour's thread (I suggest you post a link to your music), here is a link to some of my stuff of which I think has too much going on in the lowmid section. It lacks power and definition. I tried to fix this and tried different mixdowns without success. This may also be a monitoring issue as the position of my speakers is right up against the walls.
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/undertow
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/bayon
http://soundcloud.com/unlikemusic/swamphouse
I'm going to try and build up my next track with the suggestions steevio and AK made and using synths only to see if I can get a solid and well defined mix.
sounds like you're using too many LP filters on things and/or you need better monitors/room acoustics, or are you mixing on headphones ?
theres not that much low mid in your tracks, but it sounds like it because you've got no high mids.