Making Groovy beats

[AK]

Hades: I'm doing this because I must.

Me too mate, if I used loops I'd question what the hell I was doing and without blowing my own trumpet, I feel I produce loops which are actually better than these sample cd's anyway.

[AK]

I'm not sue quite what you're getting at tHEfAKEsTEVE, but please respect the fact that a lot of guys on here are absolutely capable of making the loops that you are on about. It's not a 'secret' thing bro, even I can whack those up in headphones mate, it's not rocket science, it's just silly and piss easy.

A lot of us write our own music on here, and we make and design our own sounds ( there's often conflict over even that but hey! ) It is what it is and we are what we are, but how is it ever making music if you are joining loops?.

Ok, i say that is not a rocket science too, but why u don't have to join a loop if it sounds good in your track? -.-
What's wrong with that?
I find that if something sounds good than it is good..this doesn't mean that i make track just with loop, i made a lot of track without using any kind of loop and making my own stuff.
I think that great artists do masterpieces, not because they're not joining loop, BUT just because they write good ideas, they write something special that could be vocals, strings, pianos, xylophone or whatever that sounds like anything else.
That's it.
If u make a pop song and u start to do it with a loop, that's called MAKING MUSIC too.

This comes down to one thing with me, and that is: I have a passion for creating music. Here the emphasis is on 'making'. I, at any point, don't want to have 'other peoples music' involved in my own music. I write and create stuff from the word GO. I'm not looking for sales or anything, I already have a sh!t hot job and earn a lot of money. I make music because I am INTO music, really, I am, almost spiritually. Been there, done that at breakspoll for a number of yrs, had releases but it's only since I found this website and a lot of what I would call TRUE LOVERS OF MUSIC, that i really changed. If you realy love music, the idea of loops isn't even worth arguing against bro.

I repeat, using loop in a track is creating music too.
If u need a voice or a chorus in the song, what u'll do? Buy a new voice to make it?
If u have to do a bongo or a djembe loop, what u'll do? Buy a bongo and play it?

By my point of view there'll be more "emphasis" by learning to play pianos, flute, xylo, trumpet, strings, hangdrums and using them in a creative way in tracks with loop(s) than spending hours working on a battery pattern or percussions and gettin worst results than using samples, or loops.
AND THIS IS NOT for the MONEY or to RELEASE TRACKS..it's for the MUSIC ITSELF.

That wasn't quite what i was getting at, it's not as black and white as what you're making out.

[NoAffiliation]

^^ yes it is

music as a piece of art is subjective, nothing else in between is really subjective if you think about it. you can think all day about what to use for this or that for your subjective idea but at the end it becomes objective because you made a decision and did it in real life and then it's a fact that this is what happened... if the process itself was subjective than you would never be able to logically tell yourself that you're getting better at what you're doing. making the music IS an objective in itself

some of the most beloved dance records of all time are nothing but some loops chopped out of other records with chords and bass added. i've been in studios where people literally beatmatch a loop from an old record with their track and record a few bars...

the issue is where my saying "it's nothing but" objectively is bleeding over to the fact that it's not just some loops bass and chords, its THE loops bass and chords

im not a loops kind of guy, but midi? all day long. why? because all the patterns are completely reciprocal and can easily be edited into something new. I'm not going to waste time programming patterns that are already there (i can). I'd rather spend the time experimenting with the midi in sound context and using all the amazing midi effects out there, that as far as im concerned surpass what any human being is capable of playing. i didnt start making techno to sound like a human

[hydrogen]

on point N/A... and thats what sampling is about too...

This guy sums it up quickly from the documentary copyright criminals...

“As a creative tool for someone to use a sample of a piece of existing music, for their music, I think it’s an extraordinarily lazy artistic choice. It’s much easier to take something that is already awesome and play it again with your name on it.” "its sort of like a bad dance move or something like that. You think that people doing it should be embarrassed for behaving this way. You would think that people doing it should be self aware enough to understand that what their doing is cheap and easy and everyone else can tell that it's cheap and easy" - Steve Albini

I don't care what anybody says but you cannot deny this and this is why the sample technique was invented.

[AK]

^^ yes it is

music as a piece of art is subjective, nothing else in between is really subjective if you think about it. you can think all day about what to use for this or that for your subjective idea but at the end it becomes objective because you made a decision and did it in real life and then it's a fact that this is what happened... if the process itself was subjective than you would never be able to logically tell yourself that you're getting better at what you're doing. making the music IS an objective in itself

You kinda lost me a bit there as I'm not sure I made my point very clear to what I consider to be my boundaries re: sample useage but if it's subjective, how can you say 'yes it is' if the artistic credibility of sample useage lies in the eye of the beholder?

Anyway, what i was getting at - and which has been my point all along, is the use of sample cd loops where a person simply throws everything in Ableton Live, hits render and then sits back and listens to 'their new track'. Why would someone wish to do that? Isn't the whole point of getting into music to do with realising ones creativity and applying it expressively? Don't get me wrong, I'm not intending to be arrogant on the subject or anything, I just feel it's a shame if somebody doesn't attempt to create these kind of things for themself. My first post in this thread pretty much sums up my own opinions on the subject and yes, it's obviously down to the individuals choice and they can do what they want for all I care but it just strikes me as odd.

There are genres where the lifting of samples/loops is pretty much encouraged, Hip Hop, DnB, Breakbeat - loads, but these guys often source samples from old vinyl and spend days/weeks crate digging for hidden gems and stuff. This is why I don't see it all in black & white, I doubt you'd get these guys pulling loops off the latest Loopmasters pack and releasing it because of the sheer public accessiblity of the samples they are using and the potential poo-pooing of their artistic credibility.

So for me, there's a massive grey area and I'd apply a sort of self imposed boundary/limit to keep in check to what I'd consider fair game or not when it comes to loops. Like I really couldn't see myself using any sort of commercial loop that was made on a drum machine or any electronic device as it's completely reasonable for me to assume I myself could create it with my own gear. But for say, a Jazz brushed snare loop or some industrial machine noise loop or whatever, I would use as it's not something I might have access to.

I dunno, I'm pretty content with my feelings on the matter, there's just no way I'd be musically and creatively satisfied if I hadn't wrote any of my own music.

[steevio]

just let your own groove come through in your music, all the best music has its own groove.

you're not cheating the listener by using other peoples grooves, you're cheating yourself.

if this discussion is about 'making' groovy beats, all we need to be talking about is placement of the various elements of the music in relation to one another, their duration, shape and volume.

its a big topic, probably encompassing everything in music composition and production, and has been covered here many times, maybe its worth bipedal103 searching it

[NoAffiliation]

on point N/A... and thats what sampling is about too...

This guy sums it up quickly from the documentary copyright criminals...

“As a creative tool for someone to use a sample of a piece of existing music, for their music, I think it’s an extraordinarily lazy artistic choice. It’s much easier to take something that is already awesome and play it again with your name on it.” "its sort of like a bad dance move or something like that. You think that people doing it should be embarrassed for behaving this way. You would think that people doing it should be self aware enough to understand that what their doing is cheap and easy and everyone else can tell that it's cheap and easy" - Steve Albini

I don't care what anybody says but you cannot deny this and this is why the sample technique was invented.

your choice of quote contradicts you telling me im on point. always count on the harris for some self medicating metaphysical subversion

actually i think we're on to something. instead of discussing sampling we should discuss the moment of subjectivity from brain to posting on internet. what happens in those two seconds?

[hydrogen]

your choice of quote contradicts you telling me im on point. always count on the harris for some self medicating metaphysical subversion

actually i think we're on to something. instead of discussing sampling we should discuss the moment of subjectivity from brain to posting on internet. what happens in those two seconds?

The quote was supposed to present some sort of irony to the discussion... (not directly at your post like i implied sorry ). The guy quoted was one of the only guys in the documentary that disagreed with sampling and the art form. Where as everyone else was backing it up and how powerful and cool it was as a creative musical tool.