Sound quality / Soup

manzatour · Post by **manzatour** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:23 pm

Thanks for the answers!
In my particular case, I think I have to modify my workflow.
I usually work instinctively, and don’t always have a real bassline, and the classic elements of a track, it is more a sort of minimal approach where noises take these functions. It can be that the bassline is played by more than one sound, and instead of chords or melodies I use some hijacked percussive elements or noises coming from field recordings. As said, the whole thing is very instinctive, and sounds good, basically, until I render/record… Then it really goes down to the basement, and the more I try to make corrections, the more it sounds weak and confused. Notching in the mud area did until now not give good results.
I already make compromises, and avoid putting sounds with similar frequencies together, but as I understand, I should be stricter with the rules. I will try to make a “frequency plan” from the beginning of the creation of the track and use frequency analyzers from the beginning…
Unfortunately, the only connection to the internet I have, is here at work, and I’m not allowed to upload files, but I will try to upload an example as soon as possible.

Ps: the funny thing is that (several) friends of mine, that don’t care about frequencies and mixdown more than me, get much better results as me. That’s why I thought it could be also related with the DAW.

Camel · Post by **Camel** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:26 pm

steevio wrote:theres not that much low mid in your tracks, but it sounds like it because you've got no high mids.

Seems like I need to check the overall balance of my tracks and compare it to pro tracks. I guess I've been a little too enthousiastic with the LP filters then

hehe. Maybe my sounds don't have much content between 4000 - 8000 Khz to begin with and this is causing me to think I'm already way in over my head with the low mids.

Either way, thank you for listening and pointing this out to me.

manzatour · Post by **manzatour** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:27 pm

steevio wrote: or you need better monitors/room acoustics, or are you mixing on headphones ?

and this could also be a possible cause in my case, i'm often forced to mix on headphones, and would not say that my monitors and room acoustics are especially good

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:59 pm

Camel wrote:
steevio wrote:theres not that much low mid in your tracks, but it sounds like it because you've got no high mids.
Seems like I need to check the overall balance of my tracks and compare it to pro tracks. I guess I've been a little too enthousiastic with the LP filters then hehe. Maybe my sounds don't have much content between 4000 - 8000 Khz to begin with and this is causing me to think I'm already way in over my head with the low mids.

Either way, thank you for listening and pointing this out to me.

we all love our LP filters, but if we use them on everything we're going to get soup.

you havent got much action above 1 KHz, then theres a big gap till you get up to your cymbals which sound thin, because theres no reinforcement in the high mids.
to me your kick has no definition, its quite wooly.
its not a criticism of the music, but you need to have something going on in the high mids, even if its just using the odd 12db slope filter instead of a 24db or not closing them down too much.
better still just some percussive element up there, then your low mid filtered stuff will have something to work against.

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:17 pm

manzatour wrote: I will try to make a “frequency plan” from the beginning of the creation of the track and use frequency analyzers from the beginning…

this is worth doing.

i work instinctively also, and i dont tend to use melodies as such, and if i use chords theyre not always in the traditional sense, but groups of sounds,

i always get a rough mix together first that has the right feel without worrying about the frequencies, then i look at it in more detail and start changing things till it sounds way better.
i think the secret is to do this as early as possible before you get too used to the sounds and dont want to change them. usually for me it only requires slight adjustments here and there to sort it out.

one of the best tools is the spectrum analyser in Soundforge, i take snapshots of the individual parts of my track, the layer them and look for overlapping, but you must take into account decay and sustain of sounds, it may look like theres a lot of a particular frequency, but it may be because it sustains for a long time.

Camel · Post by **Camel** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:00 pm

This is really helpful and great advice. It would have taken so much longer for me to realize this on my own. Thank you for that!

N - Jay · Post by **N - Jay** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:53 pm

I've read on the forum that some of you hi-pass filter every track except the bass. So I did.

How do make sure some deep chords (stabs/lead, starting from c3) don't interfere with the bass?

Bass is in C2 range. Say around 60 hz. Low pass it at 60 hz. Keeping it short and low.

Hi-pass kick at 80hz.

Hi-pass chords/lead at the fundamental frequency. Say at 130 hz (C3 = 130 hz).

And when doing filter automation, opening the LP filter on the bass, it cannot pass the 80hz because of the kick, unless the kick is muted of course or sidechained.

I'm doing this now, but is this the way to go?

steevio · Post by **steevio** » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:24 pm

N - Jay wrote:I've read on the forum that some of you hi-pass filter every track except the bass. So I did.

How do make sure some deep chords (stabs/lead, starting from c3) don't interfere with the bass?

Bass is in C2 range. Say around 60 hz. Low pass it at 60 hz. Keeping it short and low.

Hi-pass kick at 80hz.

Hi-pass chords/lead at the fundamental frequency. Say at 130 hz (C3 = 130 hz).

And when doing filter automation, opening the LP filter on the bass, it cannot pass the 80hz because of the kick, unless the kick is muted of course or sidechained.

I'm doing this now, but is this the way to go?

for me way too much filtering going on there mate.

you dont need to hipass your kick and chords, the fundamental frequnecy is the lowest frequency anyway, so what are you hi-passing ?

its only really worth hi-passing sounds where the frequnecy content is uncertain, or where you are deliberately trying to get rid of some sub frequency. but if you've tuned your kick, and if you're using the right notes in your chord theres no point.

theres no need to worry about the kick and bass if theyre tuned correctly.
theres been alot threads about this on here, so i'll not repeat it here.

i would also look at using lower kick and bass frequencies, i never have a kick above 62 Hz, ( a 909 kick is 52 Hz) and my lowest bass is around the 37 - 44Hz.
some thing inbetween this and yours will work well.